Team Camaro Tech banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have come across a person that said me has a 1969 baldwin motion 427 camaro. I need to know what to look for when i go look at it. He has told me the car is completely apart. I own a car restoration business and have 2 other 67 camaros but do not want to get ripped of with this deal. If someone can help with a little info and a fair price.

Thank you, Paul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,443 Posts
Get the VIN # and you can still contact Joel Rosen from Baldwin/Motion to verify the car is legit. They did engine swap cars and I'm not sure about COPO's.

------------------
Jeff H - 93 Indy 500 Pace Car(supercharged), Hugger Orange 69 Z28 with JL8 brakes & crossram
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
285 Posts
You can look for re-welded axle tubes and spring perches on the rear end. Also Motion normally mounted dual fuel pumps and a C/D ignition as well. There just isn't a good way to tell if it is legit.

You must do a thorough ownership search, talk to prior owners and then if all looks good, contact Joel Rosen. It might cost you $2000 or so to get an authenticity letter from him, but without real documentation it's merely a disassembled hot rodded non-original BB camaro and should be priced accordingly. If the seller is so sure it's legit, have him front Joel's fee.

One other thing, for it to have real value as a BM car, it must have been modified and sold as new through Baldwin Chev. not a used car that was hot rodded by Motion later in its life.

Let us know how it turns out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,938 Posts
I am in need of enlightenment. Perhaps the learned members of this organization can provide it.

What is the big deal with Baldwin-Motion cars?

Baldwin Chevrolet was just another dealer. Motion Performance was just another Speed Shop. Baldwin sends a car to Motion for clown paint and 'vette sidepipes and this becomes a Big Deal?

I don't get it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,876 Posts
Joel Rosen "Mr. Motion" was a drag racer. He ran a record holding A/MP 427 Camaro. His custom built street/strip Supercars were set up like his drag cars. A 1968 427 Motion Phase III Camaro would blow the doors off a stock 396 SS Camaro. The Motion Phase III Camaros were advertised as "the quickest and fastest street & strip Supercars in the country" They were outrageous and expensive dealer built Supercars that you could buy with a warrantee, GMAC financing, and guarantee to run a mid 11 sec quarter mile. If you wanted to go faster a modified L88 was also available. You could get the same thing from many of the other high performance dealers but they were not as bold as Motion with the wild graphics, full page ads, and the many articles in the East coast high performance car magazines. From 1970 to 1974 the Motion 454 cars dominated the Chevy Supercar market as many of the other high performance dealers stopped or reduced production. Motion sold custom $10,000.00 1970 Phase III Corvettes and even a Phase III 454 Vega that was advertised as a 9 sec. street/strip car until the government stopped Motion from selling in the U.S.A. The COPO 427 L72 and ZL1 cars have more historical significance since they were factory built but going by the prices on the Motion cars it looks like collectors will also pay high prices for the cars advertised as the "quickest and the fastest Supercar in the Country".
here is a clip from a 1968 magazine article
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1169942&a=8610132&p=33003587

[This message has been edited by JOE58 (edited 11-12-2000).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,663 Posts
William, I wish you would direct me to "just another speed shop" like Motion Performance. I haven't found ANYONE who can perform a series of modifications to a car that will work together as a package. That is what Motion did. Joel Rosen took the knowledge he gained from racing and used it to build "race" cars that were sold to the public through a dealership, Baldwin Chevrolet.

The cars were heavily modified and relatively expensive. As a result few were built and even fewer survived. I think what sets these cars apart is the "more is better" mentality that went into building them.


------------------
Hugger Orange & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 9/01/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,938 Posts
Thanks guys.

There were a number of speed shops doing this sort of thing back then. I have a flyer from Motorsport Research showing their '69 Z/28 with modifications. I guess Motion was the best of the bunch. I recall that Rosen had some comments for MCR when they match-raced a '69 L-88 Corvette against a '66 427 Cobra.

The remains of a 69 Motion Camaro turned up around here last year. Paperwork, but not much car left.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,876 Posts
I have been collecting Motion Performance articles for many years and spoke with Joel a few times. Joel was one of the Speed Shop/garages that Chevy engineering used for testing and feedback on their racing parts. There are pictures of Joel talking with Zora Duntov and became friendly with him over the years. Motion had a very early L88 in a 1967 Camaro and had a ZL1 in a 1968 Camaro. Chevy Engineering monitored the racing shops to help with testing and redesigning of their racing engines.
William- Is that Motion Camaro still available? Can you email me with more info on it?


[This message has been edited by JOE58 (edited 11-14-2000).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all the info but I would realy like to know a ball park price on a 1969 baldwin motion camaro. if anyone can help please let me know. Thanks again, Paul
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,876 Posts
Paul - The value of a Motion car depends on how much documentation the owner has. Is there any paperwork that shows that the car was purchased from Motion?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Yes there is documentation on the car, I haven't seen it yet, the car has 700 miles on it and the owner has papers showing where it was raced. I the car worth 30,40,50,000???
I don't know my shelf. Please help me with a ball park price range.
Thanks again for all your help, Paul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,443 Posts
I would guess that a true Motion car with paperwork might be worth $60-90K when restored. One needing the restoration should be worth $25-40K in my opinion. But that's my rough estimate. If COPO cars are selling for $40-$80 restored, a Motion car should fall in that range. Does everyone think that is a legitimate range? Other opinions would help.

------------------
Jeff H - 93 Indy 500 Pace Car(supercharged), Hugger Orange 69 Z28 with JL8 brakes & crossram
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,443 Posts
Just an update for you, I saw a 1973 Motion Phase III car for sale in NY for $67,000. I'm sure most people would prefer the 69 Motion car over the 73 so it should be worth 60K+ when restored.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
19,740 Posts
just a note,

two motion cars ,one with,one with out,paperwork on an episode of my classic car,both owners stated aprox. value of 100,000.Another was on dream car garage,rebuilt, frame off, numbers matching (per a call to Joel R.),est.90+.saw yet another?on a show all original,low miles,est. at 100+. So it seems if you have an original,restored,you "could" sell for 100k...if you find the right buyer.
good luck.

------------------
My68Camaro
Doug G.
68 Camaro
406 ci.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
How much info do you have on the Motion Performance Cars? We are researching info for our restoration of a 68 Camaro that was at Motion and had a conversion done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
just a follow up to the camaro. I have done further research and found out the car was bought in tenn, and drove to motion in 1969. If anyone can help now with a ballpark value. let me know. thanks Paul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
285 Posts
Suffice it to say the value is CONSIDERABLY less than a "real" Motion car. The collector market places a significant premium on a car that was sold new as a Motion Car versus a used car that was converted later even if it was a day later. I could be off target here, but I would venture to say if you had paperwork documenting what was done by Motion and when the mods were made, someone "might" pay you an extra $10K-$15K for the car. That assumes it had the 427 engine swap as you posted. Without this documentation the car is worth the same as any other hot rodded 69 Camaro in similar shape. If it was merely some headers and other hot rod parts added by Motion, I doubt you'd get more than a couple of grand premium. Of course it's always worth what someone is willing to pay. Can you post exactly what mods were done to the car?
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top