[Vintage Musclecar]

For anyone who might be interested, I just finished a 302 crossram project for a customer earlier this month. I covered the build-up including a video of the dyno test and a copy of the dyno sheet, which you can read about here if you'd like.

(btw, please forgive my marginal photography skills...I'm working on that)

Eric

 

[ept000]

Very cool!

 

[RPOL72]

Cool. Surprised you didn't run it through >6000rpm...the power was still climbing!

 

[zdld17]

Suddenly its 1969 , all over again. Very Kool.

Something else got my attention to the way this motor was put together, checking crank end play against thrust and checking for binding in the main journal, every 90 degrees. I don't hear that any more and it been one of my concerns for many years.

 

[Vintage Musclecar]

Cool. Surprised you didn't run it through >6000rpm...the power was still climbing!

We did take it to 6500 on the 2nd pull and power was starting to taper off, which was what I had planned. I wanted to keep the power down in a useable rpm range for the street.

Eric

 

[sc68z28]

Very nice and a well writen story, I enjoyed it, untill the part about westcoast

Quote (If you want the "west coast" numbers, tack on 15%-20%.)

What's up with that

Or are you talking about magizine story power numbers??

---Bill.

 

[Vintage Musclecar]

Very nice and a well writen story, I enjoyed it, untill the part about westcoast

Quote (If you want the "west coast" numbers, tack on 15%-20%.)

What's up with that

Or are you talking about magizine story power numbers??

---Bill.

Bill;

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. :beers:

Yes, I was referring to the west coast magazine figures.

Eric

 

[Vintage Musclecar]

Suddenly its 1969 , all over again. Very Kool.

Something else got my attention to the way this motor was put together, checking crank end play against thrust and checking for binding in the main journal, every 90 degrees. I don't hear that any more and it been one of my concerns for many years.

Don;

That's S.O.P. for any engine I build. Even on a relatively straightforward build such as this one, the engine will go through mock-up at least two or three times before it goes to final assembly just to make sure there's nothing I've missed. I've been bitten before by faulty machine work that snuck in under the radar...now I try to leave nothing to chance.

Eric

 

[Granny's 69]

Very Cool!! :thumbsup:

I enjoyed the build-up story & the dyno video...That's a stout little 302! Good job.

I'll bet PDQ67's blood will be pumpin' hard if he sees the dyno pull video!

 

[speedshifter]

The sweetest engine ever made was the original crass ram 302. There's no such thing as too much cam, just not enough RPM! But I also like your street friendly approach. Just think - 377 ponies with less cam. Anyone have any info on how much horsepower those "290" horse originals actually made? I think I read 400 somewhere...

 

[JimM]

very nice!!

 

[onovakind67]

The sweetest engine ever made was the original crass ram 302. There's no such thing as too much cam, just not enough RPM! But I also like your street friendly approach. Just think - 377 ponies with less cam. Anyone have any info on how much horsepower those "290" horse originals actually made? I think I read 400 somewhere...

Why would a single 4-bbl version of this motor make more power than a dual quad setup? There was recently a post here about one that made 300 rwhp, or roughly 350 at the flywheel.

 

[69z28boy]

mt all stock DZ302 with 1968 Headers through a full exhaust made 301RWHP on a dynojet chassis dyno.

the only nonstock part is a Predator version of the 30-30 cam.
its the original cam, but it has 4 degrees advance ground in.

don't know what that equates to on an engine dyno...but the car runs great

 

[pdq67]

He, He!! You didn't beat on her hard enough b/c I figure from the dyno sheet that there's still more left in her up top

Traco said like 440hp!

And PM tonyX33 and ask him about his little mild one for starters.

Please post the spec's of the cam and everything else about it so we all will know what's going on.

And SY1 here love's the little jewels just like me and Tony too!

Get the little sucker up to at least 11 to 1 w/ the good old 30-30 cam and shift at 7,000+ or 12 to 12.5 to 1 w/ the old -140 cam and shift at 8,000 and GO!!!

Sure, she might be over the hp top, but she will land right on the sweet spot when you shift and then take off like a "scalded-dog"!!

pdq67

 

[Vintage Musclecar]

He, He!! You didn't beat on her hard enough b/c I figure from the dyno sheet that there's still more left in her up top

Traco said like 440hp!

And PM tonyX33 and ask him about his little mild one for starters.

Please post the spec's of the cam and everything else about it so we all will know what's going on.

And SY1 here love's the little jewels just like me and Tony too!

Get the little sucker up to at least 11 to 1 w/ the good old 30-30 cam and shift at 7,000+ or 12 to 12.5 to 1 w/ the old -140 cam and shift at 8,000 and GO!!!

Sure, she might be over the hp top, but she will land right on the sweet spot when you shift and then take off like a "scalded-dog"!!

pdq67

As I mentioned earlier, I cammed this engine with the intent that it would be all done by 6500 rpm, which it was. It was making 377 at 6000, and was down about 10 HP at 6500. It may well have topped that 377 number somewhere between 6000 and 6500, but we chose only to record data at every 500 rpm intervals.

I'm not at liberty to discuss the specifics of the cam. This is a customers engine, not mine. However, as I stated in the write-up I avoided the factory cams intentionally as I feel they're not only too big for an engine like this for the street, but they're rather dated technology as well.

Remember, the whole goal was to make the crossram set-up more driveable on the street while still retaining decent upper rpm power.
This wasn't intended to be a race engine, just an enjoyable street set-up. I could have easily cammed the engine to make peak power at 7000rpm or beyond and I'm sure it would've crested 400 horsepower, but it would've been at the sacrifice of low-end driveability, which is exactly what I was trying to avoid.

As far as TRACO's 440 HP engines, I'm guessing that would be with more compression, cam timing, and ported cylinder heads.

Eric

 

[69z28boy]

mine was the 301 rwhp..
i have full size scans of the dyno sheets but can't seem to post them for viewing... if someone can help, i'll gladly share.

this thread was intended to build a streetable crossram car....

mine has the orignal 4bbl intake and 30-30 cam.

according to wayne guinn, the crossram really makes ridiculous power with the 140 cam... and can be very streetable if not more than the 30-30 and single 4bbl. but its all in tuning...

my 30-30 cammed 302 is an incredibly friendly street car.... which most people laugh when i say that.

as far as specs....
i used a 30-30 cam from Predator... the only difference is the intake lobe centerline is 108 as opposed to the OE 112. which means 4 degrees advance..

i advanced it another 2 into the motor and it is very crisp, and runs great.... it really pulls hard (even with manifolds on at 5000 rpm_ which is guess is when the secondaries finally kick in.....) the car with that cam really makes better use of a double pumper.... but i wanted mine stock...

i put a screw in the vac secondaries linkage, which made a dead spot when stomping on it... but if you gradually open it up (with a little more pump cam and squirter) it does just fine and comes on really hard around 4k.

 

[69z28boy]

As I mentioned earlier, I cammed this engine with the intent that it would be all done by 6500 rpm, which it was. It was making 377 at 6000, and was down about 10 HP at 6500. It may well have topped that 377 number somewhere between 6000 and 6500, but we chose only to record data at every 500 rpm intervals.

I'm not at liberty to discuss the specifics of the cam. This is a customers engine, not mine. However, as I stated in the write-up I avoided the factory cams intentionally as I feel they're not only too big for an engine like this for the street, but they're rather dated technology as well.

Remember, the whole goal was to make the crossram set-up more driveable on the street while still retaining decent upper rpm power.
This wasn't intended to be a race engine, just an enjoyable street set-up. I could have easily cammed the engine to make peak power at 7000rpm or beyond and I'm sure it would've crested 400 horsepower, but it would've been at the sacrifice of low-end driveability, which is exactly what I was trying to avoid.

As far as TRACO's 440 HP engines, I'm guessing that would be with more compression, cam timing, and ported cylinder heads.

Eric

There are dyno sheets in Wayne Guinns book (Camaro Untold secrets) where traco dynoed the 67 Ztest engin with the 140 camshaft and it peaked at 440hp (which is where these numbers came from) I do believe those heads were un-ported or if they were ported, it was mild... afterlall the 186 castings really aren't great above 500 lift... which is just where the 140 cam is after lash.. so its a good match.

with 1 3/4 headers, wide ratio muncie and 4.10s,
the 302 with a 140 cam is a hell of a ride.

 

[pdq67]

Gotcha about trying ta make more lowend so that it is more streetable, but that's not the point of the little high-strung jewel..

Drop the cam back to a good old CC 270S if you want to de-nut it. Or even the great little old Duntov cam. Heck, it's almost as old as dirt but if you look close at it, it's a very modern, up to date low lift cam, ihmo...

pdq67

 

[Vintage Musclecar]

Gotcha about trying ta make more lowend so that it is more streetable, but that's not the point of the little high-strung jewel..

Maybe it isn't the point to you, but it is the point to some people, including my customer. Not everyone wants to deal with a high-strung engine on the street that can't clear its throat until ~4000 rpm.

Drop the cam back to a good old CC 270S if you want to de-nut it. ...pdq67

De-nut it?!? It would be very easy to take that comment as an insult, but I'm going to let that slide by and refrain from further comment.

Let's just agree to disagree, shall we? You build your engines your way, and I'll build mine (and my customers) engines my way. :thumbsup:

Eric

 

[72Tugboat]

There are dyno sheets in Wayne Guinns book (Camaro Untold secrets) where traco dynoed the 67 Ztest engin with the 140 camshaft and it peaked at 440hp (which is where these numbers came from) I do believe those heads were un-ported or if they were ported, it was mild... afterlall the 186 castings really aren't great above 500 lift... which is just where the 140 cam is after lash.. so its a good match.

with 1 3/4 headers, wide ratio muncie and 4.10s,
the 302 with a 140 cam is a hell of a ride.

If those are the Trans-Am engines, wouldn't the heads HAVE to be stock?

Good Luck!