[Cal69]

Just getting around to posting a BIG thanks to all who have posted their experience with the IROC box upgrade. And an especially HUGE thank you to Brian Lewis who documented all the part numbers and phone numbers for Lee Manufacturing.

I installed the new box about 3 months ago and just got the car back on the road in the past week or so. The steering is like night & day over my nearly 40 year old original box. The feel at the steering wheel is firm and the car is much more responsive.

The upgrade was extremely easy and very gratifying. I did not encounter any problems with the upgrade. The toughest part was likely removing the pitman arm nut and even that went well. I timed the install along with a new set of headers, so they were out of the car whle working on the steering box. Clutch linkage was out also. After installing box, I filled P/S res and ran motor, turning wheels slow while front end was raised. System bled in a few mins.

Here's a list of the costs incurred.

New fast ratio box (from Kragen) = $150
Lee Manufacturing rag joint & fittings = $85
Moog pitman arm (from Summit) $65
Had paint & fluid on hand (repainted box)

The car does seem to need a small allignment & I did need to adjust my stering wheel (is now back on center with the steering shaft mark like it should be). I'm going to wait until I install new sub-frame bushings and possibly install poly control arm bushings before I have it alligned.

Great upgrade & I would highly recommend!

 

[Car nut]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

I am next. Lol.

 

[CDJr]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

So am I...after talking to Brian, Im definitely going that route :thumbsup:

 

[blainedoe]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

I did a change over a while back also. I can't see anyone haveing one of these cars and not switching over if they only knew what there missing. Big thumbs up enjoy the ride!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

 

[davidpozzi]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

How about steering self-return to center? I've heard complaints about less return.

Here is some info on adapters you may need if you use a 3rd gen box or have a 1974 or later ps pump with female outlet port.

PS PUMP OUTLET ADAPTER
FEMALE TO MALE
3/8" INVERTED FLARE TO S.A.E. FLARE
ADAPTER .
Edelmann #252660
Everco #805E
Weatherhead #1563

Steering box adapter fittings: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/clp-605sol
A hose that works with the female pump outlet is one for a 1974 Nova, the Nova uses the same subframe as a first gen Camaro.
Powercraft/Edelman hose #70973
David

 

[1stgenCR]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

I have the quick turn IROC box and it doesn't return to center very well at all.

 

[Mkelcy]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

How about steering self-return to center? I've heard complaints about less return.
David

Haven't noticed any issues even with a lot of mountain driving.

 

[blainedoe]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

Yes David you are right it does have less return. It felt like I was trying to steer a boat before the swap. lol

 

[BlackoutSteve]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

Add some castor?

 

[Brian Lewis]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

Mine returns to center. I used the following specs when I had the alignment done. They were able to dial in positive 3 caster. My 69 Camaro steers like my 2003 Infiniti G35 Sport. I run a Grant 714 14" Steering Wheel.

Caster: 3 - 4 degrees positive (+)
Camber: 1/4 to 1/2 degrees negative (-)
Toe-in: 0 - 1/8 inch
NOTES : Dial in as much positive caster as possible as long as both sides are equal

 

[Everett#2390]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

Brian answered the question, not as much OE spec caster in a 1st Gen as a 3rd Gen.

The more caster, the more return to center.

 

[JIML82]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

Sometimes a brand new steering gear can be a bit stiff. I remember several years ago I had a three year old M-van and turned it in for a brand new one. The first time I drove the new one, I almost went over the curb when making a turn. I just wasn't expecting the difference in returnability. As far as I can recall; I quickly adapted to the new van and the gear quickly began returning better.

It makes engineering sense that a faster ratio gear will require more restoring force to return to center. Any friction on the input side of the gear (steering column, flex coupling, control valve seals, etc) will actually result in more resistance to the gear returning to center than a slower ratio gear.
Jim

 

[Cal69]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

I didn't notice that it didn't return to center but I'll have to drive it again to check it out. I did test the turn signals as I had read that someone else here was having problems with them cancelling after a turn. I did not encounter this problem, mine clicked off after exiting a turn.

Brian or David, am I able to take Brians' allignment specs listed above to the shop and have them use them for an allignment? Or are there other factors at play, like tire size, sub-frame allignment, vehicle height, etc..? You guys know your stuff. I'm not sure how many older cars the guys at our local shops do allignments for anymore. Everyone wants to drive a new car.

Also, Brian I was checking out your blog. How do you like the Edelbrock shocks? I'm running the KYB's but they ride too stiff. Was thinking of upgrading.

Some may have complained that the box with the stock P/S pump does not deliver enough assist for low speed/parking. It seems fine for my use. I'm running a 235 tire, so my contact patch might not be as large as some running huge tires.

Thanks again!

 

[Brian Lewis]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

I like my Edelbrock shocks, they are better than the KYBs I had before.
As for alignment specs, those are from what Guldstrand recommends for a touring car. Obviously my suspension is modified. I did have this alignment done when I had 15" not 17" and it worked out great as well. Stock just has less Caster (causing you not to self center) and possibly a bit more toe.

Stock factory alignment specs:
Caster +1/2 deg
Camber + 1/4 to 1/2 deg
Toe-in 1/8" to 1/4" (Radial tires need less toe-in, use 1/8" or less for them)

 

[CamaroTPIPOWER]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

Well thanks 1stgenCR I cant believe how easy this is making it for me. I just joined yesterday trying to figure out how to put a 88 tpi in my 70 camaro. I then realized that the power steering pump was a little different. Some one answered real quick that I could do the upgrade to the IROK box. Upgrading my car being the point of putting in the tpi seems to make a good idea. Already thinking of replacing my steering box for a fresh one, This seems to make so much more since. and not a day late may I mention. What would I be able to buy a box for a 88 due to the fact that is the year of motor. (same fittings) ???
Again thanks so much guys making it even more fun working on my old car

 

[Cal69]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

I bought my box using a '87-92' IROC (I think the year spread is correct). The part numbers are listed in Brian's write -up. Just make sure to get the F-41/FE2 sport box. I think the Cardone part# is 276550. It was about $138 w/o tax + $25 refundable core.

Read Brian's write-up. It was perfect on all points! Mate the treads before installing the box and everything should be good. Just bleed the system before driving and test for any leaks. Then find your favorite back roads and have at it.

Brian, thanks for the response on the shocks and settings. Mine is a street car. Been trying to decide on shocks and have it between the Edelbrocks and the Konis (or maybe the Bilsteins). I'm running the Hotchkis package minus the rear bar. I run a BFG 60 series tire on 14's and am not going to change the wheel/tire. I like the old school look on the outside.

 

[1stgenCR]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

My return to center doesn't bother me much but you do have to steer back to center sometimes. FYI I have 4* postive castor. I just aligned the car from scratch a little over a month ago and when the alignment guy was throwing shims in it to just get a feel for where it needed to be he got 5* castor on one side so next alignment I might try for full 5* postive both sides.

 

[CamaroTPIPOWER]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

Would it be possable for some one who knows exctley what parts I need. To be able to put the part numbers out of summit. for the rag joint and the moog pitman arm?
I just want to order them once if possabale
Thanks again guys

 

[Cal69]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

The rag joint can be ordered through Lee Manufacturing. I read somethere that a rag joint out of a 1980's 1/2 pickup will work, but I can't verify that. You will need the fittings from Lee or you will need to have custom P/S hoses made for your application with metric ends for the new box. I decided to order all from Lee since they had it as a package. They were extremely helpful and the fitting came with instructions.

As far as the pitman arm from Summit, I used #MOG-K6582. It was about $65 or $70. The box was not sold through Summit unless i wanted to dish out $$$ for an AGR or high dollar box.

Once again, Brian's instructions are perfect and can be followed to make the swap much easier.

 

[1stgenCR]

Re: 3rd Gen Steering - Awesome

maybe a link to Brian's instructions would be helpful.

Also if the PS pump and box are swapped from the same application I'm not sure why special hoses would be needed.