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Discussion Starter #1
So i want to set my car up pro touring style, it most likely wont ever hit the road course on a serious level but i want it to handle damn good on the road.

I know i want to go tubular control arms and coil overs up front and a coil over set up out back.

My questions are

1) When is a front subframe needed ? I was looking at the Speed Tech front subframe kit and its a pretty penny. Since im not actually racing, my subframe isnt damaged as far as i know will i need to spend that kind of money or just get all new control arms and all for mine and brace it up decent ?

2) I was looking at a BMR rear torque arm set up, would this help on traction on street driving as far as turns or something or should i be looking else where for a different set up ? Id like to keep it bolt in as this car definitely wont be driven to the point of custom fabbed 4 links and what not. I want a rear end that will keep my 12 bolt.
 

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Two words, Ride Tech. Use stock subframe and performs well. I have their front and rear systems (single adjustable) with the tru-turn. Drives great on the street and will be finding out the track characteristics (autocross) at this weekends Good Guys at Del Mar. The front is purely bolt in and the rear is 95% bolt in. You have to weld the upper link tabs on the rear. Other than that, it can be done on a long weekend. Ride tech has excellent customer service and they drive their cars at all of the major events (Good Guys, Power Tour, ect).


SpeedTech and Detroit Speed are also great choices. I went with RT because I wanted to keep the stock subframe.
 

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Kyle, Chris is correct that there are a few good choices out there. Do you need to get an aftermarket subframe to achieve what you want... no , would you want to get your stock subframe as close to the performance standards of an aftermarket ... sure, why not if it can be done. I went with Speedtech front and rear for a number of reasons. Price, quality and support .. Roger, Tim and Blake are simply awesome to deal with, I've spent hours with Roger on the phone.

Also, dont forget an absolute must if you go in this direction is a GOOD quick ratio steering box

Here's a couple of pics of my front chicane setup and rear torque arm with stock 12 bolt ...



 

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If what you want is great handling for the street, that can be accomplished using the stock subframe, stock style front coil springs and separate shocks, and the stock leaf spring style rear suspension with separate shocks.

There's nothing wrong with spending lots of money, I've done it myself, but it's not needed for what you want to do.
 

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Before you do anything determine exactly what you're looking for.

17" wheels, tires, shocks and sway bars can make a big difference.

#1 is to make sure all the parts you have now are tight and in good condition. Bushings, ball joints, pitman arm etc.

Are you looking for smoother ride, less body roll, better auto cross type cornering, straight line traction.?

There will be trade offs.

Stiffer will improve body roll and cornering yet make yield a ride that is too harsh for your liking.

So plan your build accordingly and determine a reasonable budget
 

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There are tons of options out there ranging from fixing worn out stock parts to a full frame under your car. The vast majority of available parts are great at accomplishing exactly what they were designed to do; I think most (admittedly not all) of the problems people have on here involve expectations that don't match up well with the system they're using. Can definitely learn what you need from the forums - plenty of extremely knowledgeable people on here! However, if you want a reasonably comprehensive explanation of how and why one suspension design is different from another, it's probably worth picking up a copy "How to make your muscle car handle" by Mark Savitske. I'd love to recommend one suspension or another but I'm still running a stock setup, so defer to the previous posters who all have great suggestions!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Im mainly interested in making the car handle well in corners and no body roll without permanately altering the car itself. Bolt on type stuff. I think im going to start with sway bars and a different set of wheels and tires and go from there.
 

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Bigger swaybars, the G-mod, and maybe some 16" tires. :confused:
You can make these cars handle, but at what level is up to you. Sure lots of $$$$ can be thrown at it also, but at what costs in ride quality ?

I'm more into the straight line thing :eek:
 

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Sway bars, good shocks, poly frame bushings, upper & lower bushings and 17" wheels. 16's are very limited in size. This works well and will not brake the bank. Had a friend drive mine and said it was as good as his high $$$ front suspension! And don't forget an IROC steering set up. Any front end weight reduction helps the ratio as well, which there is not too much talk about.
 

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So i want to set my car up pro touring style, it most likely wont ever hit the road course on a serious level but i want it to handle damn good on the road.

I know i want to go tubular control arms and coil overs up front and a coil over set up out back.

My questions are

1) When is a front subframe needed ? I was looking at the Speed Tech front subframe kit and its a pretty penny. Since im not actually racing, my subframe isnt damaged as far as i know will i need to spend that kind of money or just get all new control arms and all for mine and brace it up decent ?

2) I was looking at a BMR rear torque arm set up, would this help on traction on street driving as far as turns or something or should i be looking else where for a different set up ? Id like to keep it bolt in as this car definitely wont be driven to the point of custom fabbed 4 links and what not. I want a rear end that will keep my 12 bolt.
I sometimes wonder if if people that reply really READ the questions that people are asking. The OP said that he "knows he wants to go tubular control arms and coil overs up front and a coil over set up out back." When he refers to spending money, he is asking whether spending the money on an aftermarket subframe not the costs of the control arms and such.

I do agree with the John (Vegas69) and make sure that the rest of the suspension parts are good beforehand. Sure adding 17 or 18 inch wheels with a larger sway might help but if his other components are old and worn, they won't do you a lot of good. Even then, I don't think you will see a big difference. A couple of you have answered about keeping stock style coil springs, where did he ask that? As for ride quality, I wonder if some of you have ever ridden in a car with a good aftermarket suspension. My Ridetech stuff rides phenomenal on the street and it can be adjusted to perform great on the track. I have also been a passenger in Detroit Speed suspension cars, same thing.

Kyle, if you decide to swap in aftermarket suspension pieces, I would recommend staying with components from the same company. I have "thrown" money at my car over the years between stock style to mixed aftermarket combination to now one manufacturer for everything. Nothing more aggravating than calling a particular suspension company about alignment specifications and when you tell them that you have another companies parts (besides theirs), you can't really get a good answer. My example was from having Global West arms, hotchkis springs and ATS spindles. I could never get good alignment numbers from anyone.
 

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I sometimes wonder if if people that reply really READ the questions that people are asking. The OP said that he "knows he wants to go tubular control arms and coil overs up front and a coil over set up out back." When he refers to spending money, he is asking whether spending the money on an aftermarket subframe not the costs of the control arms and such.

I do agree with the John (Vegas69) and make sure that the rest of the suspension parts are good beforehand. Sure adding 17 or 18 inch wheels with a larger sway might help but if his other components are old and worn, they won't do you a lot of good. Even then, I don't think you will see a big difference. A couple of you have answered about keeping stock style coil springs, where did he ask that? As for ride quality, I wonder if some of you have ever ridden in a car with a good aftermarket suspension. My Ridetech stuff rides phenomenal on the street and it can be adjusted to perform great on the track. I have also been a passenger in Detroit Speed suspension cars, same thing.

Kyle, if you decide to swap in aftermarket suspension pieces, I would recommend staying with components from the same company. I have "thrown" money at my car over the years between stock style to mixed aftermarket combination to now one manufacturer for everything. Nothing more aggravating than calling a particular suspension company about alignment specifications and when you tell them that you have another companies parts (besides theirs), you can't really get a good answer. My example was from having Global West arms, hotchkis springs and ATS spindles. I could never get good alignment numbers from anyone.
When a member with a join date of March 2015, with six posts who just got his car this year "knows" he wants tubular control arms and coilovers front and rear for a "Pro Touring Style" build, I don't think it's out of line to note that none of that is required to achieve his goal of handling "damn good on the road."

Given the hype surrounding the various after-market parts - for example, claims that tubular arms correct the camber curve on first generation Camaros - it seems fair to note that there are many paths to good street handling. He's free to ignore suggestions to the contrary, as are you.
 

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What does a new join date or having 6 posts have to do with anything? Do you know this guy? Presumption/Pre judging is not a good thing. I guess I would have expected more out of someone that has been on the boards for a long time (as I have been also). He asked a specific question, its not your money Mike or anyone elses to spend.

Sure there are many ways to do it. If the OP would have asked for options (like coil over VS stock coils) then I would understand your response. If you would read my responses, I said look at buying a complete proven setup. I guess the big question is if Kyle wants his car to drive similar to a modern car or when his car was new? Big difference.

Sorry Kyle, not trying to derail your thread, just giving you some info to think about.......
 

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Lets keep this nice guys.
More than one way to get where you want to be and I know each of us have our way to get there by a lot of trial and error as $$$ allows.
 

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G-mod, larger wheels and good tires, good anti sway bar(s). If you are not happy with the way that handles then do the add ons, after all they are only (mostly) bolt on. You will be amazed how well these old cars handle. Being nose heavy will hurt no matter what mod. Oh yea one other thing is get seats that can hold you in place (lol).
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I am not opposed to staying with a more stock oriented set up. I know this car won't handle like my BMWs but i don't want to be that old guy slowing down to 20 mph to take each turn. Ill start with my sub frame connectors, roll bars and some decent wheels and tires and see where i am from there.
 

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I am not opposed to staying with a more stock oriented set up. I know this car won't handle like my BMWs but i don't want to be that old guy slowing down to 20 mph to take each turn. Ill start with my sub frame connectors, roll bars and some decent wheels and tires and see where i am from there.
Make sure your body mounts are in good shape as well. Solid mounts will make a big difference especially if your old rubber ones are decaying.
 

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I am not opposed to staying with a more stock oriented set up. I know this car won't handle like my BMWs but i don't want to be that old guy slowing down to 20 mph to take each turn. Ill start with my sub frame connectors, roll bars and some decent wheels and tires and see where i am from there.
Make sure your body mounts are in good shape as well. Solid mounts will make a big difference especially if your old rubber ones are decaying.
I'd add to the list of subframe connectors, swaybars (I'd hold off on a rear sway bar until you know you need it), decent wheels and tires (C5 wheels (not Z06) can be used with bolt-on billet wheel adapters), and solid subframe mounts, a good IROC type steering box, check and replace as needed steering components, tall upper ball joints and delrin/del-alum UCA & LCA bushings. Get it all aligned using David Pozzi's specifications and then go out and see where you are.

Likely, you'll be very pleasantly surprised. I had a '68 built very much like this and it was a great handling car. Rather than slowing down for curves, I used the rule of thumb that I shouldn't take them at more than 25mph over the speed suggested in the advisory road signs.


If you search here and at Pro-touring.com for suspension threads, you'll find a lot can be done with the factory suspension layout.
 

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I'll second Mike's input here.

For some reason one of the first steps towards pro touring for many people has come to mean tubular control arms. However, most tubular control arms add no direct benefit to handling! And the few that add *some* benefit are limited to lower control arms that have some built in caster adjustment which won't make much of a difference for a street driven Camaro with no larger than a 245 front tire.

I have experience with 1st gen Camaro handling in 3 different build versions.
1.0 - Performance springs, front swaybar and mild performance shocks.
2.0 - AFX aluminum spindles, tubular control arms, rear sway bars.
3.0 - Fully optioned TCI front subframe and rear torque arm.

For a purse street cruiser that wants to have fun on freeway ramps and canyon roads then springs sway bar and fixing the camber gain suspension geometry with a modern alignment and decent tires is all you need. If you do that and still want more than I would consider spending the money on high end shocks.

I would highlight two things.

First, you have to fix the camber gain which means either 1) G-mod 2) tall ball joint or 3) tall spindle. This is far more important than aftermarket control arms.

Second, be careful. I was like you once and just wanted a cool handling Camaro, but then I took the car on the road course and autocross and got hooked. Hence why V3.0 exists... It is much cheaper and more effective to start with the best stuff than keep upgrading and finally ditching your stock subframe :)
 

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Hotchkis, all in one shopping the most complete kit you could imagine . It may not have coil overs or any cutting edge technology .
I didn't wave to cut my car to install it either, and it works well .
 

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Do a google search for the "48 Hour Camaro" this is a car that was built by Ridetech in a 48 hour build which was broadcast on the internet. It features all bolt on suspension components using the stock subframe and it can tear up an autocross course with the best of the Pro-Touring builds. You can start simply with a few bolt on parts and add more as the budget and your craving for more allows. Ridetech can supply a complete suspension or you can purchase it in stages.

 
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