[Sauron67MM]

80% quarters are 100% more work. For some reason people think that because less sheetmetal is being replaced it means less labor, which is incorrect. I've never used an 80% and never would, but over the years I've done countless panel replacements including skins. Read this about 80% quarters: http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=184815&highlight=full+quarter

 

[Sauron67MM]

Just as I suspected since you first posted pics of the car a long time ago. A full quarter will also take care of that channel rot. Forget the 80% quarter. Did you look at the pics of the 80%'s in the link I posted earlier and the comments about them?

 

[Sauron67MM]

It's not a part number on the quarter, it's a run number: http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#sheet

 

[Sauron67MM]

Hey Todd I am using a DA sander with 80 grit sand paper. I used 2 disks per fender. Takes about an hour per fender I found. Its messy. Best if you can do it outdoors. I was going to using those metal stripping disks like I did on my 68, but its only a 4 inch disk. The large DA with the large disks is a much faster way to go.

Don wants to repair and use the original fenders. I was thinking of going new AMD, but he insists original is the way to go. I need a corner patch on each fender. I was amazed at what was under the paint. Lots of little blemishes and minor repairs and dents. He bangs everything and reshapes it with these funky old metal hammers and tools. Very old school.

Here is a question. If it costs the same to repair a fender as it does to buy a new one, which would be the better way to go. :beers:

Every stripping job dictates different procedures. If it does not fly off with a DA, then chem stripping followed by DA is next. Some like the 3M
clean strip discs. I'm not alone, Frank's a name people actually know. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=93207 Others I know in business do the same. Once again, it job dictated. Generally, just a couple panels I use mechanical stripping.

If limited filler is required and excellent metalwork is done, save the old fender. It seems you would prefer that anyway. If one knows how to use the right techniques, any dents will require primer only. It's only old school in collision. Those with patience in restoration can do it but not many take the time to learn. Here are your "funky" tools. Eric is nice enough to take the time to post the info, so anyone can do it if they apply themselves. It's not magic. http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333455 And another thread with more techniques and tools.http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335090 I'll post this in the bodywork section too for the other greenbacks.

 

[Sauron67MM]

Trying to comprehend your objectives with the stated info. Computer ping pong is an often less than efficient means of productive communication. Suggestions are based on borrowed shop time, scheduling and budget. Expedient production is hindered by any or all of those factors. I'm assuming this car runs and it is not leaving the shop until it is jambed and painted, or at least jambed and assembled. New subframe bushings are required for panel alignment. Let's hope the mounting points don't need repair. Detailing the subframe properly requires engine and frame removal. The fenders are off so now's the time to do at least part of the firewall.

This can get winded. We all know the right way to do the job but your restrictions suggests otherwise. You have to detail the firewall behind the fenders prior to installation. But firewall component stripping now is something you seem to want to avoid unfortunately. Assuming you use satin black and SEM Trim Black or similar you can finish the firewall later, spray then what you cannot now, and it will melt in. BUT, get one speck of overspray on your nicely jambed fenders and it will look HACK. But it can be done if you tape off well. I don't think I have to tell you to prep and shoot the rad support and everything else black you can now before bolting the clip on. You can't skip it. You could put a new blower motor in now, if it grenades later, you'll be busy.

To adhere to your present plans, you can drop the subframe later. I've done it on completed cars, easily. The nose does not need the subframe to stay in alignment. It'll just hang there. Just unbolt it and drop it out. Now do the firewall. Do whatever you want to the frame and slide it right back in.
I should not have to tell you this is not standard practice but your limitations demand alternative measures.

 

[Sauron67MM]

Hey Todd the Yenko thing is really growing on me. I am pretty sure I am going to go silver. Just not sure if I am going to do it right now or just primer it up. Really depends on if I can work out a good deal on the full paint. The original deal I had was to fix all of the problem areas and then just blend in white paint to match. Once I have a better idea of what it will cost I can decide on the route to go. It really does make sense to paint it now since it is apart. Hopefully I can afford to get it done and not have to wait. I will have to check with Don and see what kind of a deal we can work out. If you come up with any crazy notions on how I can save money or get some paint for free let me know. The cost to prep for paint and painting the car is not really negotiable, since those are fixed hard costs. I can only save money on the work I do which is dissasembly, assembly, sanding, cutting, drilling etc. Too bad I couldn't paint cause that would save me a bunch of money for sure.

You need to figure out what color you are painting this car. When it comes time to jamb the car, not knowing is going to hold up production. Silver with stripes is more time and money. Buried stripes more yet. White is the fastest and cheapest. The doors still have to come off for repair and hinges rebuilt. If you can't decide on a color just bolt it together, blow primer on the repairs and plan on taking it all apart again for paint later. Which is very unproductive. I presume your bodyman explained all these options to you.

 

[Sauron67MM]

Blending is a waste of both time and money, and so is any temporary paint. The % of white left after repairs is too small for effective blending and the result would be an inferior job anyway. You're there, you know the schedule and finances. It's jamb it and do it later, or do it now, shoot the car and get it over with.

 

[Sauron67MM]

There was no body color overspray on the radiator support and other parts you observed. The nose was painted in pieces and off the car at the factory. The wiper transmission was installed after paint and should not be body color. Those are not tulip panels. Seam sealer application and other data addressing your obsevations are obtainable in the "First Gen Assy Process" report. Do you know there is a section on CRG dedicated to 6-cylinder cars? Documenting things like those spring tags and various original parts may be helpful to others.

 

[Sauron67MM]

That interior is going to look very bad the incorrect finish. In a thread you read I already stated the dash top was zero gloss with a suede additive. With the right code any jobber can mix interior paint correctly for all parts. Not the GM 715 code either, the actual paint formula. There's a difference. http://www.tcpglobal.com/autocolorlibrary/aclchip.aspx?image=1969-chevrolet-pg02.jpg
Where's that shop owner? He should know all this.
And if you know how to use the right technique you can accompish the dash top by under reducing and dry spraying it. Even if you don't, just zero gloss on the dash top is better than what you have. Kind of puts all that research about correct finishes you asked out the window. Did you mask the defroster ductwork or paint it?

 

[Sauron67MM]

You need to give the jobber the paint code in the zero gloss section also for the dash top. It's there. Read the headings, they state designations. When they pull up the formulas they mix the paint accordingly. Texture additive in PPG is DX 1999 for example. I follow these build threads sporadically so I can't answer questions with regularity.

 

[Sauron67MM]

You give the jobber the code. The tints required in the formula are pulled from the mixing machine used to make the paint. This includes flattening agents as well. You don't get two cans, one with color and one with agent. The formula designates the amount to be used in the mix. You go home, open the can and shoot it. I stated the texture additive so you make sure the jobber adds it; which they should. Every shop owner knows the process of how paint is mixed, at least on this planet. Collision shops have their own systems usually and mix in house. Does this guy explain this to you or are you not asking so as not to bother him? A jobber will even explain it if you want. It's not a secret. Ask them to go in back and look at the system. Reading this entire site should keep you busy, this is just part of it. Note the ancillaries and tints: https://buyat.ppg.com/refinishProdu...?BrandID=5d7b4ed7-f83a-4469-b68c-04551702a5df

The defroster duct was installed after paint and should not be blue.

 

[Sauron67MM]

Mike, I sprayed my blue interior car with base coat very dry with lower pressure to get the suede textured look. The paint store should have the interior paint code if you look at the 1969 GM interior colors. There should not be that many blue colors. If you have any original pieces they can color match for you. You will get one hell of a reflection with the gloss. Have you thought of painting the car Dusk Blue with white stripes?

I told him that in post #191 and the paint codes also on the GM chart. Paint codes saturate this site. I would think the shop owner should know all the spraying tecniques anyway. He's far from green. But anything is possible. Here's a thread on one person's dash spraying techniques. Not to hard to master. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=179582&highlight=nailed Perhaps many don't follow all these lengthy build threads closely, I don't. If you ask a question pertaning to a particular area you will get a faster response. Like in the restoration section, etc. Faster data retrieval.

 

[Sauron67MM]

That is a great thread to reference the technique from. :yes: I have it saved so I can remind myself later on how to paint my dash panel.

The same results occur when people screw up a paint job. There are dry spots in many. It's simple manipulation of the gun and product. It's basically a form of stippling. Varying reduction, pressure and technique produces different results.

 

[Sauron67MM]

Would practicing on a large sheet of cardboard be sufficient for attaining the proper texture and look? or should it be a large flat metal panel so it has the same adhesion and leveling properties? I want to practice first, but want to make it effective practicing. :yes:

Isn't cardboard porous?

 

[Sauron67MM]

^^^^After you waste enough material to finally seal the cardboard it will. ^^^^ Or you can just buy the mixed product and be done with it. Unless you want to play.

 

[Sauron67MM]

I think you mean the duct that is on the dash and that the holes should be filled so the overspary does not go down there. No it was not masked. Should I paint it black inside, before I re apply the new dash paint? Or should I just leave it?

Well the only way to do it right is to pull the duct and remove the paint, but that is the part that goes in before everything else under the dash. I cringe saying this but you can shoot it satin black inside now but have no way to ensure adhesion. Before you prep and reshoot the glossy blue, it needs to be known with what type of paint you just shot it.

 

[Sauron67MM]

SEM already comes flattened to approx 30-35% gloss, so you can't increase it. It does need to be reduced, so read the can. I already touched on this too. I use lacquer thinner or urethane reducer. SEM is the same sheen as PPG 9266 black. More gloss in your blacks would require buying black lacquer (or urethane) and knocking it back on your own with flattening agent to get the gloss desired. If you look on the link I gave you, 9266 is for black interiors as well. See how the sheens for your blue and black are within the codes and formula? Dash tops are a different code.

The heater box cover is black lacquer shot unflattened. And as I said before, lacquer is not as glossy as urethane shot unflattened. Different animals.

 

[Sauron67MM]

Various pulley finishes are acceptable, I have not read this until recently. http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7128.0 The alternator fan on the chart you have is 67 only: http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=1512.0 SEM is fine for the frame. Keep in mind it is not a catylized paint like the Chassis Blacks available. I have had no issues with it and I drive my car in the weather, even after a frame off and have no frame paint failures at all. My inners are shot with satin urethane only because I had it in stock. SEM is durable paint and easy to spray, dries fast with a great finish.

If you read the chart the 30% does not apply to everything. It's up to you how nuts you want to get with detailing. Find a pic of John Z's survivor engine on CRG. They are on there. Search "vacuum hoses" or similar. Or see if firstgenaddict has one done.

Subframes? For what it's worth, read how these cars were not built with a show finish in mind: http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=5559.0

I'm outta here.........

 

[Sauron67MM]

Thanks scott as always very helpful and educational. Nice to know I am getting the best possible advice for my project. Many thanks. If I ever make it to CT I owe you :beers: :beers: :beers:

No worries. Others possess knowledge greater than mine. Been on your dirt many times over the years but on the other end. Although it was white and I was on a sled.

 

[Sauron67MM]

Mike,
None of those parts were primed - they were just painted. Most were dip-painted.

The whole thing about a resto is seeing what was there and matching it. Look at the paint on the backside of the part to see the original gloss - before you strip it. Another example: The VIN on the dash was a different paint than the rest of the dash. I'd have masked it off. Now it's gonna have 3 layers of paint on it.
If you want it to look original, details matter.

Hey Kurt the Vin did get masked. It does not have to be perfect. I am just trying to keep the original vibe as much as possible and not paint things in a way that makes no sense, like many we have all seen. A nice tasteful clean & freshen up is what I am after.

Another suggestion: Do not pour the primer on and fill any stampings present on any of the parts. Although they (not sheetmetal) were not primed originally, burying the imperfections and markings on a part takes away from it. Do not use that polyester primer, it's very thick and will obscure markings. Such as the stamping grooves and creases, and run numbers on any sheetmetal parts or brackets. There are also pictures of correctly painted dash VINs on CRG. Remember what I said about the wiper transmission?

James gets very detailed with his work and you can use it for reference even though you are not going all out on your job. Kurt is correct, the details matter. I'm sure you noticed the paint mil thickness was minimal on many parts. You don't have to put all the paint runs in as the factory did, but maintain correct colors and consistency. In my opinion, a mistake would be just blowing black on the assembled subframe without any attention to detail. But if you are not pulling the frame all apart, paint any component, bracket and line you can get off correctly. You'll have to live with the a-arm shafts. It depends on how deeply you are diving now and your time constraints. Only you know. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=177272&highlight=firstgenaddict

Paint the firewall blackout correctly too, not just a taped line. Tell your painter before it's too late.