[jorgezee1]

I am about to start assembly on my stock 69 subframe steering components and after reading posts from here and on other forums I am not sure of my setup.

Per many of David Pozzi's posts and his website, he recommends running a constant ratio box (12.7:1) with a short pitman and short steering arms, but I also see in his website he provided information for a factory variable ratio combo in a 69 Camaro that seems to be close to my setup: N40 N44 16:1 - 12.4-114.3:1 - 10.8:1 Turns - 2.2, Long Pitman and Short Arms.

I have a AGR variable ratio box, Long Pitman, Long Idler, Short arms. I am curious to know what I should expect from my setup. David mentions the fast of everything is too fast with a 12.7:1 box, but I am curious to know does that apply to a variable box as well? Should I stop and change my steering components?

I have the AGR 292317 Billet Box (13-16:1). I called AGR and they told me the box will be 3.3 lock to lock in the car, but I do not know what arms/pitman/etc they used as reference.

My Parts list:
AGR 292317 Billet Box (13-16:1)
Pitman, PS Long K6154 (5.78") (Old Stock)
Idler arm Long (5.8") #20227 (Rare Parts 67 Replacement)
Large center link is (1.125") GM#3953221
Steering Arms Short (5.25") LH-3954875 RH-3954876


Adding to this: My other suspension components:
DSE Upper and Lower Control Arms
JRi Coil overs
ATS Tall Spindles
Bear Tracker outer tie rods

Thank you,
Jorge

 

[TJS69]

I have an AGR box with the variable ratio and it is just over 2 full turns lock to lock. (About 2 1/8) Everything else is stock replacement for a '69 with power steering.

 

[davidpozzi]

You should be OK as far as driving straight ahead ratio. I had a friend with that combo and it drove OK. You can always swap the pitman arm if you dont like it. I don't like the variable ratio because I autocross and the steering get's quicker as you turn the wheel so it's hard to do sharp turns precisely. The slower ratio straight ahead does calm the car down, later boxes used constant ratio but higher effort valving to settle the steering down. Does your box have the firm valving?

 

[jorgezee1]

I have an AGR box with the variable ratio and it is just over 2 full turns lock to lock. (About 2 1/8) Everything else is stock replacement for a '69 with power steering.

Thank you for the feedback! Are you running the long or short PS pitman?

You should be OK as far as driving straight ahead ratio. I had a friend with that combo and it drove OK. You can always swap the pitman arm if you dont like it. I don't like the variable ratio because I autocross and the steering get's quicker as you turn the wheel so it's hard to do sharp turns precisely. The slower ratio straight ahead does calm the car down, later boxes used constant ratio but higher effort valving to settle the steering down. Does your box have the firm valving?

David,

Thank you for the feedback! Reading the AGR website, yes they have firm valving. "manufactured with firm valving for precise handling and enhanced road feel"

https://www.steerco.com/product-p/292317.htm


I will do as you suggested, I will just put it together and see how it feels.

This will be a 95% street driven car. I am hoping to drive it occasionally to work and on weekends cruises, but mainly just drive it around for fun. Also I read in some of your other posts front tire size can effect the feel of the car. I am running 245 45 17 in front and a 275 40 17 in back, will this make a big enough difference to be concerned?

Also, is the long Idler 5.8 going to need to be changed if I decide to switch to a short pitman?

 

[TJS69]

I am using the Moog K6582 which they say is 5 7/8. I believe that is the long pitman arm.

 

[davidpozzi]

Thank you for the feedback! Are you running the long or short PS pitman?






David,

Thank you for the feedback! Reading the AGR website, yes they have firm valving. "manufactured with firm valving for precise handling and enhanced road feel"

https://www.steerco.com/product-p/292317.htm


I will do as you suggested, I will just put it together and see how it feels.

This will be a 95% street driven car. I am hoping to drive it occasionally to work and on weekends cruises, but mainly just drive it around for fun. Also I read in some of your other posts front tire size can effect the feel of the car. I am running 245 45 17 in front and a 275 40 17 in back, will this make a big enough difference to be concerned?

Also, is the long Idler 5.8 going to need to be changed if I decide to switch to a short pitman?

The long idler is OK, it's a very good match for the long pitman. It will work with the short pitman. Most replacement idlers for 68/69 Camaros are mid-length to work with either one. There is no problem using them on a 67, since 67's had long and short pitman arms too.

Your tire sizes are pretty common. it's hard to fit a larger tire up front. Smaller front tires cause some understeer. A rear bar helps a lot, so use a front and rear bar set. If the rear bar is adjustable, that's best. Hellwig sells a set with hollow front bar and adjustable rear bar that works well. Hotchkis has a pair too.

 

[LS 1st Gen]

Bringing up an old topic here, but sometimes you just gotta.

I'm looking at running the AGR variable box but I am upgrading from manual steering.

So which Pitman arm and Rag joint to use is the question. So far the Moog K6582 long arm seems readily available so I'm looking at that option but am a little lost on the rag joint.

Would the Lares 201 (3/16" 31 spline input shafts with flat and 3-1/4" OD) work with my manual steering swap? Do I need anything else on the column in order to adapt to the box assembly?

Bonus question, The car is equipped with K19 smog so I have a 2 groove crank pulley. What do I need to run a power steering pump pulley? Would this have been a 3 groove puley from the factory if K19 and power steering were used? What if AC were added?

 

[davidpozzi]

Add a PS pulley insert. It will bolt inside your current two groove pulley. First gens all used the separate PS pulley

 

[LS 1st Gen]

Add a PS pulley insert. It will bolt inside your current two groove pulley. First gens all used the separate PS pulley

Thank you for the response David. After perusing the CRG pulley's list and the AIM I think I wrapped my head around what I will need.

I would like to add AC to the car later as well. Assuming vintage air or the like would provide a compressor mount that would work with the K19 system and short water pump, it looks like I'll need a deeper K19 pulley, and a 3 groove water pump pulley, in addition to the pulley insert on the crank.

It may seem wierd to retain K19 and cobble together the rest of these accessories, but I think that keeping the smog system with the car is the way to go at this point.

 

[davidpozzi]

Here's my PS pulley info page. I don't have AC info unfortunately.
Camaro steering
I have a hunch the AIR system shared a belt with the AC but I'm not sure. Check the AIM manual page A13. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0llMKUpqcpRZ1JfSlZISWsyZ2s/view


The 67-68 pulley systems are terrible for high performance high rpm's. Shallow groove pulleys allow the belts to slip off if they stretch at all or are slightly miss-aligned.
The Z/28 option used deep groove pulleys which stack up more on the crank so different Alternator, PS and probably AIR pump pulleys are all different with wider deeper grooves. in 1969 the long water pump was used and accessories moved inwards to a neater setup with wider deeper groove pulleys.