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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been trying to figure out if this needs to be done or not for my 68 Camaro or not. I have read and re-read the tech writeup and seen Jim's Electrical sticky and am still deciding on what to do. Can I change what I have to get a Voltage Sensing wire or should I get a CS alternator?

I have a Powermaster 17294 Chrome alternator (100 amp) that is currently wired as a 1 wire. This was done awhile ago when motor was changed and the electrical guy that helped said it would be much cleaner... I can make this a 3 wire since there is a black cap over the 2 spades on this alternator per Powermaster. I see several things on going from a SI to a CS but what about a 1 wire back to a 3 wire? I have the GM style connector for the alternator, which wire goes where from the alternator? Does the Red wire from the connector go to the main +12 coming from the battery on the alternator (jumper wire) like in the tech writeup? Or does the white wire do that from the connector? Or am I wrong altogether.

http://www.camaros.net/techref/electrical/dnult_alt/ - I see on the CS conversion the wires coming from the alternator, plus a main power wire. I do not care about the GEN light since i have replaced the factory gauges with Autometer's, so I don't think I need the brown wire at all right?

http://www.camaros.net/techref/ftecref14.html - on this tech writeup from Wes, I see the 4 wires from the regualtor and 2 are capped and 2 are connnected together, but in other threads I have read the 2 inside wires are connected and the 2 outside wires are connected so which is it?

I also went out and bought the CS alternator for the 1988 Old Firenza 105 amp, because I was thinking I have some time this weekend to do this..

Thanks to all that help...
 

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in an internal reg alternator, the 2 extra wires are "gen light" and "remote sense." Wes's writeup does not use remote sense, he jumpers that wire directly to the alternator's output lug.

The 2 center wires on the reg connector would be connected together to hook up "remote sense" with a 3 wire internal reg alternator.

It would probably be a good idea to get some wiring info specific to the powermaster alternator.

The gen light wire also tells the alternator to "turn on." Note that en the dash harness, this line is connected to the ignition switch thrua resister wire, and will perform the "turn on" function even without a gen light (which fatory gauge cars never had.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That is part of the issue with this alternator. Both the Powermaster site and instructions are the same pdf file online as what I already have and it does not say which is which 1 or 2 on the wires..... It looks like the plug can only go on 1 way from trying it both ways last night after playing with this a little more before I went to bed. If I look at the back of the alternator and then compare that to Wes's write-up I have a white wire where the blue wire is #1 and a red wire in #2. If I want to make sure this is wired to Voltage sense would I then connect the White wire to the Blue or Brown wire from the old voltage regulator? or would I then jumper the Orange and White (yellow in pic) together and connect my white wire from the alternator?
 

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At the regulator, the brown wire (#3 on the reg connector) is it's voltage sense wire.

The int. reg conversion jumpers this to #2 on the reg, I forget it's color but it IS one of the 2 wires that goes to the alternator and should be attahced to the alternators remote sense line.
 

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That is part of the issue with this alternator. Both the Powermaster site and instructions are the same pdf file online as what I already have and it does not say which is which 1 or 2 on the wires.....
Looking at the back of the alternator, terminal 1 is always closest to the BAT terminal, even though there isn't any markings



It looks like the plug can only go on 1 way from trying it both ways last night after playing with this a little more before I went to bed. If I look at the back of the alternator and then compare that to Wes's write-up I have a white wire where the blue wire is #1 and a red wire in #2. If I want to make sure this is wired to Voltage sense would I then connect the White wire to the Blue or Brown wire from the old voltage regulator? or would I then jumper the Orange and White (yellow in pic) together and connect my white wire from the alternator?
Electrically, for the blue and white wires, it doesn't make any difference which wire is used for which (sense and excite/GEN) it only makes a difference where the wire originate and go to, although most instuctions use the blue for excite/GEN and the white for sense.

For excite/GEN, at the old VR plug, jumper the brown to blue, and at alternator blue goes to terminal 1 at alternator

For sense, at the old VR plug, jumper the orange/red to the white and at the alternator the white goes to terminal 2 at alternator.




This puts the sense wire right at the splice near horn relay. See pic



JimM said:
At the regulator, the brown wire (#3 on the reg connector) is it's voltage sense wire.
The brown wire is #4 at reg connector and is the excite/GEN wire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
This is why I love this site. You guys are awesome!! THanks Jim and Greg!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Looks like I will keep my 100 amp Powermaster and wire it 3 wire, vs. going to the CS..... Do you guy agree with that or is there something else I am missing from the benefits of the CS besides it is smaller in size? I know the CS is 105 amp where mine is 100, but if I am running it as shown above it should not need to be "triggered" at 1800 RPM anymore right?
 

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I have a similiar setup on my Camaro and kept it SI but required it for 3 wire instead of 1 wire. It works great! The CS is mainly for lower rpm cruises if you have an overdrive. Since I am converting my 63 Nova to overdrive right now I bought a new CS alternator that I will eventually put in but for the time being I'll just keep my float charger hooked up.
 

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but if I am running it as shown above it should not need to be "triggered" at 1800 RPM anymore right?
Correct. Alternators wired as a 1 wire need to be reved to "kick in". Alternators wired as a 3 wire don't need to be reved, the alternator is already on as soon as the key is turned on.

jaguareats said:
if you got a 1 wire. you cant put it back to 3 wire unless alt is pulled apart and rewired inside.
Partially correct. Depends on who made the alternator. Many powermaster alternators can be wired either way without doing anything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
finished it up, started it and like you said Greg no rev up needed!! Went right to 14.4 on the voltmeter.... I do have overdrive and while I am in 5th gear I was noticing it was running about 11.8-12.2 volts and on one on my longer drives, I got down to about 10.8 once that happened it was never the same and never would go back above 12.2 for an extended period of time...... Thanks again!!!
 

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finished it up, started it and like you said Greg no rev up needed!! Went right to 14.4 on the voltmeter....
:D

whytry said:
I do have overdrive and while I am in 5th gear I was noticing it was running about 11.8-12.2 volts and on one on my longer drives, I got down to about 10.8 once that happened it was never the same and never would go back above 12.2 for an extended period of time...... Thanks again!!!
It this happening currently or before. Voltage lower than battery voltage means the alternator isn't keeping up with demand or isn't working at all and you are just running off the battery. If you had a GEN light it would be on. Once voltage gets around 10 or less you risk not being able to restart the car. The overdrive RPMs must be really low. If you still have problems in overdrive, try shifting to a lower gear. If that helps, you may need to look at you crank to alt pulley ratio. Alternators need about 2400 alternator shaft RPMs before they start to put out anything.

http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/power_pulleys.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
That was before this conversion. I literally finished this conversion from 1 to 3 wire after I saw yours and Jim's posts helping me figure out where the 1 and 2 wires from the alt went to..... So far it is much better, no headlights dim at stoplights and on OD.....
 

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I have a cs stlye alternator in my 67. it is a 250amp model that i had built. the place that built gives you an adapter plug that attaches to your two wire internal regulator plug and plugs into the 4 wire cs style alternator. the place that i bought it from is called Nations Starter and Alternator.
 

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Go for it. Put a CS130 in there. You'll be glad you did for multiple reasons. Alternator technology has improved vastly in the last 30 years. One of the biggest improvements is better charging currents at idle. The old external types would barely charge at idle and dimly glowing gen lights were common.

Brackets are the only thing you'll have to noodle, other than the wiring which is well documented. The techref article was my guide. I bought the aluminum mount (which requires heads with holes in the front - not the first gen OEM heads), and fabricated the upper bracket from one I located through the techref links. Wiring is pretty straight forward whichever way you go.
 

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I am sorry to drag this up from the past but I hope you guys can help me figure something out. When I bought my Car (68 BBC / firebird) it has a Proform 66445.1N installed on it. When the car is running it puts out a constant 14.4V. My problem is the stock voltage regulator is still in place. My question is can I remove it? I read threw this post and a few others. I guess I am missing somehting because there is NO blue wires running from the regulator to the alternator? Now I may just be confused but is there sapose to be a stock wire going in that direction or was I sapose to run one to the alternator if I removed the regulator? I looked up the Alternator and its instructions says just run one 10G wire to the + battery terminal and that's it!. Now Its working as it is installed but I want to remove the regulator. Can you guys help me out Plz? Hope these Pics help.





 

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I removed mine and it works fine. I don't have a gen light now, however.
 

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Yes but do I need to run a blue wire to the alternator? Do I still install the jumper wire on the alternator? I am sure I still need to jump the 4 wired that plug into the regulator right?

Kinda like this? http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref14.html

and this

Looking at the back of the alternator, terminal 1 is always closest to the BAT terminal, even though there isn't any markings




Electrically, for the blue and white wires, it doesn't make any difference which wire is used for which (sense and excite/GEN) it only makes a difference where the wire originate and go to, although most instuctions use the blue for excite/GEN and the white for sense.

For excite/GEN, at the old VR plug, jumper the brown to blue, and at alternator blue goes to terminal 1 at alternator

For sense, at the old VR plug, jumper the orange/red to the white and at the alternator the white goes to terminal 2 at alternator.




This puts the sense wire right at the splice near horn relay. See pic




The brown wire is #4 at reg connector and is the excite/GEN wire.
 
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