[MikeC68]

Hi all, I just finished installing the vacuum canister, actuators and routing all the hoses but headlight doors don't move. I checked, double checked and re-checked the hose routing based on the diagram that came with the new hose kit. I havent seen these in working condition so I am not sure what is supposed to happen (short of the doors opening/closing). Does it take time for a vacuum to build up in the canister the first time? There is a switch(?) on top of the valve (the valve mounted to the vacuum canister where red/green/yellow connect) that can be moved in one direction that says open and the other direction that says normal. Am I correct that it should be at normal? Also, I pulled the hoses off at the light switch (at dash), while engine was running, and don't feel a vacuum on either. Is that normal? I suspect it is something stupid that I am missing. I assumed the hoses were all good, because they are new. But that might not have been a good assumption. I can test them also. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Mike

 

[Everett#2390]

The headlamp switch hose, I would think, would be at full time vacuum.

You can rigged up a HVAC evac pump instead of using the engine for lengthy troubleshooting.

 

[click]

filter in the vac line installed backwards?

 

[DjD]

I don't know if it is still the case but the kits came with bad instructions at one time... Give the link in our tech ref area a try...

http://www.camaros.net/techref/series_2.html

 

[MikeC68]

thanks for the replies! There is a good chance it is the filter in backwards. Its about the only thing I didn't check. The diagram in the link is great! I will use from now on to go over everything. The instructions I got were very poor. Looks like a photocopy of a copy....very hard to read. Its so much easier in color. As it mentioned in the link, my hose kit came with some tubes having cracked ends. I was lucky that I had to shorten them and ended up cutting that part off. I hope the quality of the tubes isn't causing my problem.
Thansk again,
mike

 

[Fred Ficarra]

No vacuum anywhere in the system????
Also insure that you've connected to full-time vacuum on the engine, not ported vacuum on the carb.
Also, that color chart is in error. The green hose has to connect at the top of the valve if it's going to be placed at the rear bung on the actuators.

 

[DjD]

Also, that color chart is in error. The green hose has to connect at the top of the valve if it's going to be placed at the rear bung on the actuators.

Fred we go round and and round... You keep posting it's wrong but the info is per the factory assembly instruction manual and the Chassis service manual and was a collaboration of 2 other members as well...

I know you are going to say you have an orig survivor that has the hoses the other way... You are the only one to question the way they go in the many years it's been posted.

The bottom line is no matter what color goes where, make the connections as shown and if everything else is functional it will work...

 

[MikeC68]

I have double-checked that I have it hooked up to full vacuum. I am thinking it is most likely the filter being backwards, and I am going to check it after work tonight. The valve assembly I have is labeled R, G, and Y (not sure of the order). So I hooked up the tubes according to that. I'll check back in after I take another look.
Thanks again,
Mike

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Dennis, last time we talked about this discrepancy you said you were going to look into it. What did you find out?

 

[MikeC68]

okay, I just checked the hoses again. I have a 68 which seems a little differnt from 69. Namley, I have two ports on the vaccuum tank. One going to the valve (yellow) and the other directly to the engine (black). The filter is in this black line to the engine. The yellow line is split at a T with another black line going to the dash switch. The filter seems to flow both ways (not a check valve. The other three port check valve doesn't seem to be used on 68 (according to the assembly manual). What I am wondering then is how does the vacuum tank maintain a vacuum with the engine off, without a check valve? The 69 routing seems to make more logical sense to me. Is a check valve incorporated somewhere in the tank, etc. that is not apparent? I verified that all my hoses are correct to what is in the assembly manual.
Thanks, Mike

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Mike, maybe 68 and 69 are different,,,,but I don't think so. Look at the diagram that's on-line again. Note the vacuum supply line from the engine. Another labeling discrepancy is that the filter is called a check valve. As you found out, it's not a check valve, only a filter. The T valve after the filter is the check valve. Confirm that yours is installed and properly plumbed.
After hooking up my HVAC vacuum pump to trouble shoot my system like Everett said, I was able to confirm the 'green line' discrepancy. And mine is all original except for replacement canisters.

 

[dnult]

A good way to diagnose any vacuum system is a hand vacuum pump. They are pretty cheap and not only pump vacuum but read vacuum as well. You can use it for checking engine vacuum, actuating servos (like head light doors, and vacuum advance), as well as bleeding brakes. It's like a vacuum system volt meter and power supply all in one.

Shop around, I got mine for about $10. I saw a craftsman set the other day for $39 which was the same $10 pump and a half dozen adapters and a brake bleeding jar. In reality it was about $12 over priced IMHO.

 

[prostreet69camaro]

I agree with dnult. You can take the hand pump and hook to your vacuum actuators on the head light doors and test them to open and close. That way you know they are good. That will also tell you how much vacuum it takes to open / close them. You can also test different parts of the hose cicuits to see if you have any leaks. The vacuum pump works great also but it will pull 30 inches of vacuum and a motor does not pull that much vacuum. Both items will help with the troubleshooting. The hand pump is good to have. I have the brake bleeder kit and us it all the time.

 

[RamAirDave]

One other thing to note, some (maybe all, not sure) of the OER valves on the cannister are mismarked/made backwards where the R Y G hook up. They will work opposite if the R and G hoses arent swapped at the valve.

Hideaway setup diagnosis is much like electrical issues. Start at the front, and backtrace to find out where you are losing vacuum.

 

[rsbecool]

I don't want to stir the pot guys but there are two pictures included, one is a diagram modified of the one found here on the site for a 69, this modified diagram is how the hoses are routed on my 68 rs. The second picture is of a aftermarket relay I replaced recently, clearly stamped in the housing is the hose placements, red on top, then yellow in the middle, then green on the bottom. My car has the red and green flipped, it's not how the factory diagram shows it, but it's how it is on my car, and it works fine. I guess I could just flip the hoses and it would be as the assembly instruction manual shows.

 

[DjD]

Thanks Rene - I have 2 vacuum relays, a broken repro (I believe) with "CCP" on it and the one I use with "AC Spark Plug Div" on it. Both show the "R" on top and "G" on the bottom. The '69 AIM clearly reflects the red on top and running to the front of the actuator as well, the green on the bottom running to the back of the actuator.

If someone has a '68 AIM that could verify or scan for me the pages that have the hose routing on it that would be cool. I know the '68 used a different vacuum tank (2 vacuum ports). It's easy to see how an additional tee replaces the extra port on the '69 tank...

Rene can you test your overide switch to see that the doors open when you cut off the vacuum from the headlight switch?

Fred to answer your question I have not been able to find anything that calls question to the AIM. Even a survivor with orig hoses was subject to it's orig owner or a mechanic swapping the hoses around to fix a system that didn't work well.

As for the Check Valve if you reference the AIM again (Z22 B6) it says "Vac Hose (Black Tee to Check Valve) Sheet B7. The tee or 3 way is just that a spliter. The inline filter (one in and one out) is the check valve. Both the AIM and Chassis Service Manual support this. Just what does a "filter" filter in a vacuum line? You'll note please that I refer to it as both a line filter and a check valve. I don't recall where I got the "Line Filter" name, maybe a repro parts manufacture is calling them that. The 2 reference books call it a "Check Valve".

If I could find any proof I have it wrong and the reference material used has it wrong I'll make the changes... There is just nothing to dispute it though.

 

[MikeC68]

I was just going to ask if anyone had a specific diagram for 68. I was going to try and fit the 69 picture to what I had and modify....but this so much easier. My valve is also stamped R on top, Y in middle, and G on bottom. I have the reds running to the front and greens to the back of the canister, as the assembly manual shows. I used the filter that came with my hose kit (it flows both ways. The instructions said that there is no check valve in 68. I don't believe anyone has said how then the vaccuum is kept with the motor off. Or is it. Just wondering. I still haven't been able to figure out why its not working. But I am going to, as suggested, get a pump and work from one hose to the next. Another thing I was wondering is if the engine goes directly to the vacuum canister, then wouldn't it take a little time to get a vacuum built up....?
Thanks Mike

 

[Everett#2390]

The purpose of the check valve is to keep the reservior supplied with the engine off and to protect the system in case of backfire. The valve closes and prevents a sudden high pressure spike destroying everything else.

I would think the reservior wopuld be connected to the engine at all times and the headlamp switch would open the path to the motors. The reservior is to supply the volume of vacuum needed as the supply line from the engine is too small for the volume of vacuum requested by the motors, hence, a reservior is used, just like an air compressor.

 

[rsbecool]

Dennis, I have tested the override on my car. When the vacume is cut off by sliding the override switch the headlights open as they should. For my car to be as the assembly manual indicates all I have to do is switch the top and bottom hoses and reverse the hoses at the canister from front to back. The so called check valve looks to be more of a filter that allows air to flow in both directions unlike the one used in the 69 that has one inlet and two outlets that does seem to be a true check valve.
In the 68 cars you can only close or open your headlights as long as you have vacume in the tank. On the 69 this design looks to be improved because of the check valve because it holds the vacume in the tank after the engine is shut off longer. So long as you don't have any vacume leaks in your system. I think everett#2390 is onto something about the filter on the 68 used to protect the system from backfires. My 2 cents

 

[sleepsinshed]

I got the doors working on my 68 a couple of years ago and documented the process. Here's a link to some pics and instruction. Hope it helps.

The 68 and 69 are different.

http://www.y2camaro.com/ref/rshose.html