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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok been reading some forms about authenticating camaros I have had a 69 camaro in my family for 30+ years my father stripped its paint down and primed it and lost steam. It set that way for 30 years and now I inherited it and I would like to get it restored. This was a California car so when my father started his restoration process he had trouble authenticating if it was actually a z28, bc California cars were supposedly alot harder to authenticate. It does have the DZ block with the 4 speed Muncie Trans and a 12 bolt rear end, as well as the 4 leaf springs, front disk brakes, guages on center console and no options other than a radio that looks like was added to the car. So my question if all the stars align is there a way to authenticate this car with some sort of paperwork, or is this just gonna be a numbers game.
 

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Yes, first, post your VIN. Then post a good high resolution picture of the passenger side engine pad where the suffix code is. Third, post a high resolution picture of the transmission stamping. Last post a high resolution picture of the axle stamping. Although the trim tag on LA cars won't tell you if it's a Z28 or not, post a picture of that too.

OR, email me the pictures and I can let you know. My email address is in my signature below.

Examples:

ENGINE PAD

TRANSMISSION STAMP

AXLE STAMP

Ed
 

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Eds advice is spot on. He can look at the stampings and distinguish between original stampings, and restamps. Confirmed original stampings are as good of proof as any of the other indicators on originality. Make sure you save the pictures for future use.
 

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Welcome Smitty ! Regarding paperwork, have inquired with NCRS ChevyMuscleCars - Shipping Data Report Services (chevymuscledocs.com) yet ?

About the best paperwork you can get if you don't already have some is through Jerry MacNeish MacNeish Certification Reports (z28camaro.com) He is highly regarded among Camaro enthusiast and will inspect the car and provide a certification of his findings. Services are rather expensive, but money well spent on certain cars. Sounds like yours might be a good candidate.

So post some photos as Ed suggests and we can help you decide if it might be worthwhile. The drivetrain is the most conclusive, so that's the best place to start....
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes, first, post your VIN. Then post a good high resolution picture of the passenger side engine pad where the suffix code is. Third, post a high resolution picture of the transmission stamping. Last post a high resolution picture of the axle stamping. Although the trim tag on LA cars won't tell you if it's a Z28 or not, post a picture of that too.

OR, email me the pictures and I can let you know. My email address is in my signature below.

Examples:

ENGINE PAD

TRANSMISSION STAMP

AXLE STAMP

Ed
Welcome Smitty ! Regarding paperwork, have inquired with NCRS ChevyMuscleCars - Shipping Data Report Services (chevymuscledocs.com) yet ?

About the best paperwork you can get if you don't already have some is through Jerry MacNeish MacNeish Certification Reports (z28camaro.com) He is highly regarded among Camaro enthusiast and will inspect the car and provide a certification of his findings. Services are rather expensive, but money well spent on certain cars. Sounds like yours might be a good candidate.

So post some photos as Ed suggests and we can help you decide if it might be worthwhile. The drivetrain is the most conclusive, so that's the best place to start....

Ok great guys, I might just have to take back all the bad things I say about the internet to my kids if this all works out lol. I took these pictures the other day to send to a guy that was gonna look them up in a book. The Trans and rear end I will send those later when I get home from work. My father bought this car when I was like 13 and over the years I bet 100 people have looked at it and gave different answers to it being a Z or not so it would be great to know the truth.
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Looking good to me so far.👍
 

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Smitty, can you please remove all the paint from the engine pad? DON'T scrape it off with a screwdriver, but use paint remover. We need to see the machine marks on the deck.

Ed
 

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We also need the block casting number and casting date. It is back on the bellhousing flange of the block. You will need to look down from the firewall of the car if the engine is in the car. Also is there a 1/4 inch pipe plug in the block just above the water pump area?

There are no known verified original DZ blocks assembled at the Tonawanda engine assembly plant.
 

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Nothing on the LOS tag to denote a Z/28, but your car was White (50 50) with a black standard interior (711) built the 2nd week of Feb. (02B). If the experts give the thumbs up to the stampings, then you definitely have a z/28 with it's matching engine. Lots of people out there restamping blocks, so until it is verified with original stampings, I'll leave it at that. Notice the 19L523070 stamp on the engine pad? That is the partial VIN you will hear us talk about and matches the last 8 digits of your cars VIN. Transmission should have the same stamp if it's original. Again... all this hinges on if they are original stamps or restamped. Experts will be along shortly.
 

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Another thing is the assembly stamp. T0127DZ decodes as T= Tonawanda assembly plant, 0127 would be January 27th, and DZ is the code for a 302. Odd that it was assembled at the Tonawanda plant vs. the Flint (V) plant, but it isn't unheard of, either. I hope your stamps pass the experts, because if they do, you definitely have a Z/28! Hopefully the transmission matches, and the rear end is dated in the right time frame as there is no partial VIN stamped on the rear ends. Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok guys when I get home from work will get this stuff, im excited. So numbers off rear end and Trans and clean up the block number pad. And someone said they need something from the back of the block I will try to figure out that when I get home. This car has a unique history. This car belonged to one of my fathers friends family. This car was there sons car and it was one of his prized possessions, well he went off to the military and was killed I guess and this car was put into storage for years. My father said he tryed to buy this car for approx 10 years until one day they finally decided to sell it. So unless this kid 40+ years ago changed these numbers they should be original to the car. We have no idea but with the time frame he could have even been the original owner as well. Authenticating this car is the first step to restoring it the next one is one of u guys got to call my wife and tell her it's worth restoring lol.
 

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.............. the next one is one of u guys got to call my wife and tell her it's worth restoring lol.
You will have to give me her phone number first...LOL.

Since it's a Van Nuys (LOS) build Camaro there could also be a build sheet stuck to the top of the gas tank if it has never been removed. If it's there that would be a gold mine of a find. If you do find one, don't touch it and post pictures first to determine the best approach to preserve it.
 

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A Tonawanda DZ stamping certainly raises eyebrows. Not saying the car isnt a real Z, but that engine may not be the original. The characters do not line up with legit known stampings that I have.
It would be interesting to see the rest of the driveline stampings.

Also the build sheet could be on top of the gas tank. They are typically on the drivers side front corner and sometimes you can shine a flashlight up there and see it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
No my dad looked on top of the tank years ago and under the rear seat for one. They were gonna he did work on authenticating this years ago but every shade tree mechanic had there own idea today's internet area should be a big game changer I think. Ok got your numbers if theres something that u need again let me know took a couple of each. Will start with engine then Trans and last I'd the rear end pics. Thanks guys
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Sorry, I believe the block is a restamp. 3932373 was a 307 (cu in) block.

The trans code needed is on the passenger side. Should be a partial VIN there as well.


T
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The axle stamp needed is on the passenger side axle tube.
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
On the engine being from somewhere unusual I do remember my dad asking a guy about that, if I remember he said if it was at the end of a model year and someone ordered a z, they could have had to import the engine in from another location to fill the order, bc they only made enough z 28s to use up the 302s engines made for the year. This was done the same as the ZL1 engine that they didn't sell but a handful of. Again I'm just repeating what I was told I'm no expert, this car as a kid was my dream so when someone was talking about it I listened lol.
 

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Decoding the VIN;
12437- Chevrolet Camaro, V8, coupe
9-1969
L- Los Angeles (Van Nuys) assembly plant
523070- serial number

Cowl Tag;
69 12437- 69 Camaro coupe
VN= Van Nuys
266876- Fisher body number
711- Black standard interior, bucket seats
50 50- Dover White exterior, top& bottom (no vinyl top)
02B- built February, 2nd week
1375- Fisher Body scheduling code (used only at the VN plant)

Conclusion is both tags are genuine. The build date (cowl tag) and serial number (VIN tag) coincide properly together.

Engine stamps;
19L523070- Partial VIN which matches the full VIN
T0127D?- Tonawanda engine plant, assembled January 27, which aligns properly with the car build date 02B. The last 2 letters are the engine suffix code. As I mentioned, 3932373 was a 307ci block only. Possible 307 suffix codes (last 2 letters) were DC, DD, DA, DE....

Conclusion (IMHO so far ;)), the engine (307) is original to the car, however just the last letter of the suffix code has been restamped (Z) to appear as a 302 Z/28 engine.
 

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Decoding the VIN;
12437- Chevrolet Camaro, V8, coupe
9-1969
L- Los Angeles (Van Nuys) assembly plant
523070- serial number

Cowl Tag;
69 12437- 69 Camaro coupe
VN= Van Nuys
266876- Fisher body number
711- Black standard interior, bucket seats
50 50- Dover White exterior, top& bottom (no vinyl top)
02B- built February, 2nd week
1375- Fisher Body scheduling code (used only at the VN plant)

Conclusion is both tags are genuine. The build date (cowl tag) and serial number (VIN tag) coincide properly together.

Engine stamps;
19L523070- Partial VIN which matches the full VIN
T0127D?- Tonawanda engine plant, assembled January 27, which aligns properly with the car build date 02B. The last 2 letters are the engine suffix code. As I mentioned, 3932373 was a 307ci block only. Possible 307 suffix codes (last 2 letters) were DC, DD, DA, DE....

Conclusion (IMHO so far ;)), the engine (307) is original to the car, however just the last letter of the suffix code has been restamped (Z) to appear as a 302 Z/28 engine.
X2
 
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