Team Camaro Tech banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would like some advice on how to build a 350 from the block up. I want to build it right, for speed and performace. Anyone out there w/ some advice....I would like to hear it. thanx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,663 Posts
ALWAYS remember, bigger IS NOT better. Don't overcam or overcarb. Those are the two most common mistakes people make.

You don't say what you will be using the car for or what your budget is, but here's my opinion for a strong street motor:

heads: good set of aftermarket. World Products makes some good iron replacements.
There are a lot of good aluminum heads on the market, you pick. Stick to 195 - 200 cc intake ports for the street. Bigger valves don't do much good until 6,000 RPMs, so save money here if you can.

compression ratio: 9.0 with iron heads, 9.5 with aluminum

cam: Something similar to a Competition Cams 268H, MAYBE a 272H depending on what you are using the car for. If a daily driver, stick to the 268H. I've had the 268H in two engines, a 327 and 350, and really like this particular grind.

carb: stick to 600 to 750 cfms, with 650 being just about right for a 350. Edelbrock vs Holley is your call. Everyone has their own preference.

intake: Edelbrock Performer RPM or Holley part# 300-36. Both are dual plane. They are virtually identical, so get the one you find with the lowest price.

ignition: Get an electronic distributor or convert your points to electronic using a Pertronix kit. This is more to reduce maintenance than performance. I have used MSD ignitions (6A or 6AL) on all of my street rods. It is optional though.

headers: stick to small tube headers (Hooker Competition instead of Super Competition). You'll have fewer potential interference problems. Again, the extra size doesn't affect horsepower until 6,000 RPMs, so why bother?

extra: put forged flat top pistons in and get a 125hp nitrous system. The above should make a good 325-350 hp and the nitrous will get you over 400.

This motor may not have the most peak hp, but is will have a lot of low end grunt. That's what you really want on the street.

------------------
Hugger Orange & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

[This message has been edited by gheatly (edited 03-09-2000).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
755 Posts
Gheatly - very nicely done and excellent advice!

I would just add that you should get a good book (or several) on rebuilding SB chevys such as the "How to Hotrod Your Small Block Chevy" and/or Lingenfelters book - read 'em through a couple of times and just ignore the parts about building a 500 - 600 horsepower race motor. They have really good basic engine building advice. Allow plenty of time to do the job so you can do it right. And don't scrimp on the machine work - you get what you pay for.

------------------
Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed; '99 HD Road King Classic
www.geocities.com/sdenning1
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
10,164 Posts
gheatly said it well. I'd like to add a couple of things. If you are looking for 400 horsepower get a good steelcrank, 4340 rods, bearings, forged pistons and moly rings in a balanced assembly. You will save money over getting your old stuff re done and have better quality parts in the end.

If you have great flowing heads, it will act like a hotter cam is in the engine. You can then run a milder cam and have a broader power band. By great flowing heads, I dont mean big cfm ONLY, I mean heads that flow very well at low lift and flow numbers are balanced between intake and exhaust. The exhaust should flow 75 to 80 percent of intake if I remember right.


[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 03-09-2000).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
999 Posts
these guys said it all. but really, i've heard too many so called "motorheads" brag about what size cam, and what size carb, they have in there car and they forget about one thing. things have to be match up. if you get too big of a cam or too big of a carb, things are not going to work they way they were intended to work. what your doing is a smart thing. post the question and sit back and learn from what people have made work and what doesn't work. read books. there is a lot of very good advice on this site. your starting off with a very good engine and it's purposes are endless. from mild to wild, it's a very good engine. and i agree, with the modern technology into todays cylinder heads, that's were the power is at. get yourself a good set of heads, a good cam and intake/ carb and prepare to hold on.
good luck with your project,
bruce
1969 pro street 396
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
297 Posts
Very good point about 'matched parts'. Piecing an engine together sometimes doesn't yield the best performance. If you can affod it, check out the Holley Systemax set-up or the Edelbrock Performer RPM system. Matched heads, cam, intake and carb. Either one will give you 400+ HP and the parts are all tuned to work together. I'm sure these guys spend big bucks designing their systems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,663 Posts
The only problem I see with the Holley and Edelbrock systems: the cams are pretty radical. My engine builder recommended against a cam that was similar to the one in the Holley kit. His opinion was that it wasn't the right choice for a pure street car. BUT, that was his opinion and I took his advice.

------------------
Hugger Orange & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I am building a 350 using the rpm package less the heads same compression 1.94 valves 78cc. How much hp will i loose approx. thanx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,071 Posts
i would recommend getting the AFR 195cc heads with a small cam 268ex and u will make tons of streetable power. Also don't scriom on quality parts like using a steel crank 4340 and forged pistons. JE makes a good quality piston and TRW makes a cheeper forged piston that is good quality but i think the JE is the better of the two. I would also go with the Preformer RPM intake and hei ignition. Good luck !

P.s. Don't forget to do a good quality break in

------------------
69 Camaro RS, 355ci mild cam, Preformer rpm intake, edelbrock 600 carb, 350 turbo w/ shift kit 2500 stall, 10 bolt 2.73 any more questions ask
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
i think gheatly said it right(but i would stay under 180 cc heads),but i want to add some of my 2 cents worth too,this is fun!don't rule out the wieand 8004,very good intake for the money,have your distributer recuved(will make a world of difference if done right).if you have the money coat or wrap the headers, coating is better.add some form of cross over tube to the exghuast.when you install the cam put it in at 106 degrees.use magnum roller tip rockers(1.6 on intake).use some form of COLD air intake,not just a open element under the hood(this WORKS wonders).have the block decked to ZERO(helps h.p. because of tighter squish).all this mentioned will add across the entire power band(except for the 1.6 rocker which will add a little to the top end 3500 on up).

[This message has been edited by sldhd (edited 05-13-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Hmmm. I usually just lurk... but I decided to post to this one because it is very interesting.

A couple of things you may not get:

Don't use a high volume oil pump unless you have an oversized oil pan... you can pump it dry at high rpm.

Don't bore the cylinder any more than absolutely necessary... the more you bore a cylinder the more that bore distortion can adversely affect ring life.

Try to get a set of X series rods if possible... they are lighter AND more durable than the old K series rods. My last rebuild I got a set from a wrecked Camaro for $80... with only 10k miles!

Go for low end power. The cam grind that produces the most peak dyno power rarely produces the quickest most dependable engine.

Get the absolute best quality machining you can afford. No matter how many cute stickers for fancy hi-perf stuff you get, the engine will not last with poor machining!

Good Luck on your rebuild...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
y does every one say u can pump your oil pan dry i went to melling oil pumps web site and it said right on the site that the lifter have a metering devicet that regulates how much oil goes to the top dont ask me though alot of people seem to think that it will pump oil pan dry but i have a high volume pump on a 5 quart oil pan and oil pressure is aroun 17 in gear hot and 20 in park so dunno but no probs yet
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
I would like to add on the cam, the 268 is a good grind but if you use the xe262 you can get about the same hp and will make more tourqe. On the oil pump just because I read somewhere that with most street engines, unless you are at 6000 are above for extended periods of time you will not drain a 5 quart pan. I have also ran a high vol/pres, pump on a pretty hot 327, when cold it ran 100psi when warm it idled at 55psi and ran at 80psi. I never had any problems and I doged the car every chance I had. Im not saying anyone is wrong these are some things I have heard and had experiance with. Use your own judgement and have fun, theres nothing like cranking up a new engine the first time that YOU built.

Shane
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
thanks guys, ill keep all the advise in mind. right now im toying w/ the idea about trying to pry a 454 in my Z. dunno yet, but im thinking pretty hard about it. of course i do have the 350 2 bolt main block w/ an edelbrock perf rpm intake already.

------------------
Black 82 Z28 t-top, 350(toying w/ the idea of a 454) w/ TH350
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
the high volume pump "can" pump your pan dry,BUT thats if your not using your head and mashit when its cold out.the reason:if you use regular motor oil, when its cold is practicaly like honey it doesn't matter how many restrictor your motor has ,if the oil CAN'T get back down to the pan in time to go through its cycle again ,you will pump it dry. but how many of us just go out and fire it up and mash the peddle? if you do shame on you. plus you could blow your filter to smithereans with a high volume/pressure pump. needless to say you don't need one on a street motor,your robing yourself h.p.. this rule applies to pressure,10lbs per 1000 RPMs. i would only use a high volume in a 400 because the main bearing surface area is greater than a 350 so in essence you're "leaking" a little more oil past the bearing. but you don't really need it. just my 12 cents worth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
hey ken67ssrs, would redoing the suspension and brakes and bushings and everything all the way 'round help w/ the added weight of the bb?

------------------
Black 82 Z28 t-top, 350(toying w/ the idea of a 454) w/ TH350
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
Unless you are just wanting to build a motor for the pride factor and experience, look at the various pump gas motor packages from a number of well known engine builders, very cost effective and they have warranties. I just looked through all my receipts from building my full roller 355 a few years ago and truthfully, if I had it to do all over again, I would buy a 509/540 package from any of the builders I mentioned earlier and make more torque and horsepower on pump gas as opposed to the 355 on VP C12. Just a thought.

------------------
Doug Thiel
69SS 355/TH400/9"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
Doug, there's something to be said for the pride factor. My 12 year old and I started our forst motor, a 'Budget' rebuild. I also agree with the oil pump, The one we threw away blew 6 oil filters to pieces before it went up in smoke.

I get 45 psi at 900 rpm idle with 20w-50 with a melling standard flow pump.. I can turn the pump with my little skil drill and get 40 psi with the motor off.

When winter comes to Arkansas I'll have to change to 10w-40.

When I figure out that bigger isn't better, I'll lose the 280H cam and go to the 268, but I love the stoplight ride.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
IMHO go buy a premade block with just the pistons, rings, rods, n crank. GM ZZ small block partial is what they call it in the GM flyer which is the base for ZZ4's. Throw on some good iron heads like Darts, toss in a better cam (Comp XE268 or 274), maybe clean up the ports in the heads and a RPM intake or an EFI intake. I wouldn't put 1.6 rockers on just the intakes though cause the exhausts might need that extra lift too and ESPECIALLY don't do it if your gonna run nitrous. If your gonna run n2o put the 1.6ers on the exhaust and make sure the valves won't hit the pistons.

Or you could buy a full GM crate like the RamJet 350 ($4500) or Ramjet 502 (about $9000) What I would probly go for though is the Fast Burn 385 with a hot cam will get you to 430HP right outta the crate. But it's probly on the pricy side. Shop around and compare what it'll cost. And ask yourself do you need a big block? If you really want ALOT of power spend the money and build a stout 400 SB with some really good heads and long rods. I wouldn't go for nitrous personally since you can make enough power without it and it's a risk if you don't set it up right the first time. Check out the thirdgen.org board if you want an aftermarket EFI intake on it (especially with how much gas is going for lately) and think about spending the money you saved from not getting the BB on a T-56 or Richmond 6speed tranny with 4 wheel discs and a good suspension. While you got everything torn apart I'd go ahead and do a full rebuild of the suspension since stock sucks anyhow. Go with hotchkis front and rear springs and swaybar. Some subframe connectors and new bushings wouldn't hurt either along with traction bars. And get some good shocks. Remember that suspension is only as good as the tires also.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top