Centerforce
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I am glad you guys are on this topic any recommendations for a m20 4 speed ? Fly wheel and clutch ?
m20 here also with an 11 inch setup currently
Yes, original 350 motor with a few mods. Kept all the stock parts for any future owner looking to put it back original. Shoulda put new clutch setup in when rebuilt motor, but it looked in good shape at time. Is currently a CenterForce setup. not sure which one but it needs replace before summer. Hard on my knee when stuck in traffic cruising. Looking at a knee fix this fall so hope can still work clutch.😕
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IDK what motor you have but just look on McLeod site for your particular set-up and either buy from them or at Summit or the usual places. IMHO motors making 400hp or less are good with full face organic disc clutch unless running a tire at the 1/4 mi track. In that case get the DF (dual friction) disc with organic on one side and ceramic puc on the other with the later using a SFI billet FW. Otherwise a standard iron FW is fine
For those making more HP the puc/puc type clutch disc hold better but street manners diminish (clutch chatter) in stop/go traffic and on engagement.
IMHO the best is a twin disc clutch for motors making more than 400ish HP. I have the Mccleod Street Twin. Both full face organic discs
For a more left leg friendly clutch, Hydraulic vs Z Bar mechanical clutch linkage is nice.
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Here is some info on Centerforce clutches, scroll down a bit .
I run a Centerforce dual friction clutch and it runs smoothly, pedal effort is easy but I have a hydraulic clutch setup. They rate it to 622 ft/lbs of torque. I would recommend that you spend a little more and get the dual friction as it uses organic/ carbon composite rather than organic on both sides but its your call.
An area that I found to work better than others is a Hays throwout bearing when using a mechanical system, it costs a bit more but was worth it and lasted.
I run a Centerforce dual friction clutch and it runs smoothly, pedal effort is easy but I have a hydraulic clutch setup. They rate it to 622 ft/lbs of torque. I would recommend that you spend a little more and get the dual friction as it uses organic/ carbon composite rather than organic on both sides but its your call.
An area that I found to work better than others is a Hays throwout bearing when using a mechanical system, it costs a bit more but was worth it and lasted.
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the intent is with CF the sliding weight move outward as RPM increase to affect more pressure (holding force) of the PP....but that also increases effort to push in clutch at high RPM. Then there is the noise thing. and then when one or more of the sliding weights does not slide (crud or something restricting it), balance is affected, and vibration ensues.
Other clutch makers, like McLeod, rely on leverage and angle of diaphragm fingers and where the fulcrum is to exert clamping force. Friction composition of the clutch disc is the primary contributor to holding (not slipping) of clutches. Full face organic clutch will offer the smoothest engagement but not hold as much as a DF (dual friction) organic/ceramic puc type and a 2 sided ceramic puc type clutch disc even more so. IMHO the best is a twin disc clutch which provides twice the clamping surface as a single disc clutch is the way to go for higher HP cars and still have great street manners (no chatter) with full face organic clutch discs. The original McLeod Street Twin or the newer RST or RXT are twin disc clutches
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Just to clarify some of the arguments made......the Centerforce Dual friction clutch does NOT contain organic/ ceramic friction material, it contains organic/ carbon composite. Carbon is excellent in friction material in that is has better temperature resistance than organic material and we all know that too much heat is not a good thing. An example of carbon composites being used in vehicles is brake rotors.
Even newer transmissions use hybrid carbon fiber rings, the new Tremec TKX is an example of this and other upgraded manual transmissions.
While the effort is minimally more to depress the clutch at higher rpm the overall pressure is light, a higher clamping pressure is needed to provide sufficient pressure for carbon to prevent slippage, hence the weights.
Noise?? There is no noise that I have noticed, the weights are all interconnected and move as a unit and do not move individually. I really don't think a manufacturer would let a product go out to market for several years having a noise issue and do nothing about it if it persisted with multiple customers. If you've got crud in your bellhousing that's not a good thing for any clutch.
I've got nothing against Mcleod products, I actually use some their hydraulic clutch components for my 1st gen. I can only speak of my personal experience with the Centerforce product that I used.
Even newer transmissions use hybrid carbon fiber rings, the new Tremec TKX is an example of this and other upgraded manual transmissions.
While the effort is minimally more to depress the clutch at higher rpm the overall pressure is light, a higher clamping pressure is needed to provide sufficient pressure for carbon to prevent slippage, hence the weights.
Noise?? There is no noise that I have noticed, the weights are all interconnected and move as a unit and do not move individually. I really don't think a manufacturer would let a product go out to market for several years having a noise issue and do nothing about it if it persisted with multiple customers. If you've got crud in your bellhousing that's not a good thing for any clutch.
I've got nothing against Mcleod products, I actually use some their hydraulic clutch components for my 1st gen. I can only speak of my personal experience with the Centerforce product that I used.
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segmented clutch materials, aka "puc type" made by various companies can be ceramic or carbon composite, Kevlar and even iron full face. Each has their benefit it either heat tolerance or friction minimizing. Trade off's can be in drivability and PP & FW wear on more aggressive material types. They all have a purpose over the other depending on use intent based on use purpose of car (drag race, street, drifting, autoX)
I campaigned a car on the Super Chevy tour years ago for a few years and went through several types of clutches so have opinions on the brands I have tried. Granted drag racing, with a tire, is absolutely brutal on clutches so failure was always a given. Under those conditions' guys, including me, who did have a CF clutch experienced the weights breaking which did make noise after. Likely not an issue in normal street use. My $.02 is if more friction holding is needed either use more aggressive clutch disc material and live with the downside of street manners if it is not an exclusive track car or get a dual disc, aka twin disc, clutch.
I campaigned a car on the Super Chevy tour years ago for a few years and went through several types of clutches so have opinions on the brands I have tried. Granted drag racing, with a tire, is absolutely brutal on clutches so failure was always a given. Under those conditions' guys, including me, who did have a CF clutch experienced the weights breaking which did make noise after. Likely not an issue in normal street use. My $.02 is if more friction holding is needed either use more aggressive clutch disc material and live with the downside of street manners if it is not an exclusive track car or get a dual disc, aka twin disc, clutch.
It looks like it comes down to personal preference, I appreciate.the information you all have posted. I have ordered nothing yet. Still deciding. Are you two guys only ones with any knowledge on clutch setups? Anyone else have any say? Looking for any good information without getting into debates on manufactures and different products. I realize everyone has their own preference and its OK. Lets here from you all.
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Go with Centerforce - that's my opinion, easy on the left leg and heavy on the launch !
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I have had an 11" Centerforce II in my big block Chevelle for the past 20 years and I beat the snot out of it with street tires. Never given me any problem. This was put in after breaking 4 or 5 McCleod 3 finger clutches that had high pedal effort. The Centerforce is so light on my leg and I thought it would never hold up but it proved me wrong.
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That's the reputation that I'm aware of too.
Here is the stock clutch that is used with a LT4 engine mated with a 6 speed manual transmission. The engine makes 650 horsepower and 457 ft-lbs of torque at idle and 625 ft-lbs of torque at 2800 rpm.
![Wheel Automotive tire Alloy wheel Rim Tread]()
There is nothing fancy about it. It has two clutch disks.
Flywheel:
![Rim Automotive wheel system Automotive tire Gas Circle]()
Inner clutch disk:
![Watch Automotive tire Bicycle part Rim Crankset]()
Flutter plate:
![Automotive tire Rim Wheel Automotive wheel system Auto part]()
Outer clutch disk:
![Automotive tire Rim Automotive wheel system Gas Auto part]()
Spring loaded fingers:
![Rim Collar Silver Automotive wheel system Circle]()
It comes with the GM's connect and cruise package. The clutch came in a box that was marked as a RAM clutch. So RAM makes GM's clutches. GM warranties this clutch for 2 years to hold up behind the high horsepower engine. If it any good, time will tell.
There is nothing fancy about it. It has two clutch disks.
Flywheel:
Inner clutch disk:
Flutter plate:
Outer clutch disk:
Spring loaded fingers:
It comes with the GM's connect and cruise package. The clutch came in a box that was marked as a RAM clutch. So RAM makes GM's clutches. GM warranties this clutch for 2 years to hold up behind the high horsepower engine. If it any good, time will tell.
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Yeah those 3 finger, Borg & Beck, type clutches are a real leg breaker. Regardless of what clutch company, get a diaphragm type clutch. Your left leg will really thank you.
Ditto on a twin disc type for higher HP cars. Easy on the leg and can hold a ton of power
Ditto on a twin disc type for higher HP cars. Easy on the leg and can hold a ton of power
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