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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone, looking for some advice on troubleshooting and which direction to go to fix the chatter on my 68. SBC 327, muncie m20, 10.5" cutch zoom flywheel and clutch kit, mild cam 222/222(i believe), dual plane intake. 12 bolt rear with 3:36 gears. a couple years ago I switched from a PG to a muncie m20. I sourced parts though here, parts swap meets and purchased new items. after the swap i had very noticeable chatter starting off in 1st and reverse. I chalked it up to a brand new clutch, pp and flywheel setup that needed breaking in and my 3:36 gears weren't helping. I dealt with it but had to rev to 2500 rpm plus to get rid of the chatter starting off. drove around for 1500 miles or so before I went to a unit where I was consistently deployed for three years. the car maybe got 1000 miles in the past few years. Stationed in Hawaii now and decided to buy a hydramax clutch kit to get rid of that long mechanical creaking Z bar and linkage and t would force me to drop the tranny and inspect everything to solve this chatter issue. today I dropped it and found many hot spots on the flywheel and pressure plate, also noticed the center portion of the clutch disk was slightly rough compared to the outter and inner edged of the disk. tomorrow ill grab calipers and measure the input shaft of the tranny and pilot bearing. from eyeing it with a tape measure it seems the pilot bearing has a larger diameter than the input shaft on the tranny. Tranny input shaft has more radial play in all directions than I like. when i installed the tranny i upgraded to the heavy duty front bearing. I suspect a few different issues....1st lower quality FW, clutch and PP. 2nd maybe I put too much grease on the shaft splines and it flung on the clutch assembly??? 3rd too much play between pilot bearing/input shaft. 4th its normal with my numerically low gear gear and cam? I would love to go the TKO route with the 5th gear but its pretty spendy especially shipping to hawaii. So im looking to solve this and move on so my car is more enjoyable to drive. with the symptoms and photos what do you guys think is going on an which cost effective direction should i take to remedy it. Thanks!
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Do you have the correct pilot bushing in the crankshaft? I purchased several vehicles with the same problem and they were all missing the pilot bushing. Yours has the bushing there so all I can think of is that it is too big.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Do you have the correct pilot bushing in the crankshaft? I purchased several vehicles with the same problem and they were all missing the pilot bushing. Yours has the bushing there so all I can think of is that it is too big.
honestly it was a handful of years ago when i ordered it. I just checked summit and they dont have my order history that long ago. ill measure it out tomorrow with some calipers, im hoping its an easy fix like that.
 

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Looks like slipping.

Was the clutch linkage adjusted too tight and didn't fully release the bearing when you took your foot off the clutch pedal?

At the very least you will have to resurface the flywheel, get a new clutch disc and take a peek at the clutch surface before putting the car back together. A new pilot bearing couldn't hurt, but get a real one that a magnet won't stick to.

If you pull the old bearing, check it for fit on the tranny input pilot.
 

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I believe poor quality parts are the issue. pilot bearing being over size would not cause clutch chatter. The hot spots are the result of slipping at high rpm to compensate for the chatter and are not the root cause.

I would trash it and go with all new clutch, PP and flywheel along with a bronze pilot bushing.
 

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“ I dealt with it but had to rev to 2500 rpm plus to get rid of the chatter starting off.”

Should be able to drive off at 700 rpm.
IMO, this was first clue of a problem.
 

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Organic clutch material, like in Op's pic, should not chatter. Initially reading I thought it was a ZOOM kevlar disc which will chatter

if pilot bearing is toast or to big and input shaft bearing are bad that movement can cause chatter or noise on engagement.

Given clutch is out absolutely replace pilot bushing. FW can be resurfaced if it is still within minimum thickness spec.

I have had several clutch brands in my T56 car and hands down McLeod has been the best clutch for me.
 

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Resurface the flywheel, Purchase a Centerforce I or II pressure plate disc and TO bearing. Replace the pilot bushing with a GM roller bearing. Centerforce also makes a roller pilot bearing but I have never used it. I always get one from my local Chevy dealer. Input shaft bearing should be checked but I can't comment on the condition without seeing it.

 

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It appears the outer edge of the clutch disk is contacting the pressure plate before the rest of the disk. Lay a straight edge across the pressure plate and fly wheel and see if one is warped. I have found many pressure plates warped.
Also the pilot bearing looks like it is worn or not correct for the car. Do your comparison of the input shaft and the pilot bearing ID. Check for burrs on the input shaft too.
Nothing wrong with an organic clutch disk. It should be alright and should engage smoother than a metallic disk.
 

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Maybe resurfacing the flywheel will help. I had clutch chatter many years ago and it turned out to be a bit of a warped flywheel.
 

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Maybe resurfacing the flywheel will help. I had clutch chatter many years ago and it turned out to be a bit of a warped flywheel.
It has to be resurfaced due to the heat marks or it will chatter, I didn't even think about it being warped but it needs a resurface so that will fix that as well. If it is a cheap flywheel it will warp again the first time you slip the clutch too much so I would recommend a billet flywheel. $239 for a flywheel isn't exactly cheap but it is a good quality SFI flywheel that won't blow apart and take off your foot. I have never heard of Wohlert but they look like a US company or used to be at least and supplied the big 3 automakers. Depending on your budget maybe get it resurfaced and give it a shot.

 

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It has to be resurfaced due to the heat marks or it will chatter, I didn't even think about it being warped but it needs a resurface so that will fix that as well. If it is a cheap flywheel it will warp again the first time you slip the clutch too much so I would recommend a billet flywheel. $239 for a flywheel isn't exactly cheap but it is a good quality SFI flywheel that won't blow apart and take off your foot..

Exactly. In the big scheme of things go all new with matched parts and be done with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
When I get home from work today I'll measure the snout and pilot bearing sizes. I'll grab a new FW, pp and clutch. Any recommendations for a budget minded quality set?
 

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Your Muncie wants a pilot "bushing", not bearing

A standard "replacement" clutch kit will be OK if the car is not raced. Many "store" brands are made by Hays or LUK but just boxed in whatever store brand (Duralast @ Autozone)

A 5-6 spring hub vs 4 on the clutch disc

With that said, I would get this

1967 CHEVROLET CAMARO McLeod Racing 75117 McLeod StreetPro Clutch Kits | Summit Racing

If your FW can't be resurfaced, this would work on budget and is SFI rated

1968 CHEVROLET CAMARO Luk Clutch LFW131 LuK Clutch Flywheels | Summit Racing
 

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I believe poor quality parts are the issue. pilot bearing being over size would not cause clutch chatter. The hot spots are the result of slipping at high rpm to compensate for the chatter and are not the root cause.

I would trash it and go with all new clutch, PP and flywheel along with a bronze pilot bushing.
Agree and if you like to rev it, get a forged flywheel that won't explode on you. Look for a SFI rating. They do cost close to $300; maybe you can find one used.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Your Muncie wants a pilot "bushing", not bearing

A standard "replacement" clutch kit will be OK if the car is not raced. Many "store" brands are made by Hays or LUK but just boxed in whatever store brand (Duralast @ Autozone)

A 5-6 spring hub vs 4 on the clutch disc

With that said, I would get this

1967 CHEVROLET CAMARO McLeod Racing 75117 McLeod StreetPro Clutch Kits | Summit Racing

If your FW can't be resurfaced, this would work on budget and is SFI rated

1968 CHEVROLET CAMARO Luk Clutch LFW131 LuK Clutch Flywheels | Summit Racing
Ill order the above links, thanks for suggesting them! I should have checked the bushing and input shaft prior to installing them... here some pics for a good laugh! hahahah here's the problem!
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the busing was a pain to get out..tried the bread trick didnt work, switched to grease didnt work so mixed bread and grease and came right out in three wacks after an hour of screwing around with it.
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next time use one of these to remove pilot bushing/bearing. Autozone has them under the "loan-a-tool" program or you can buy it at Harbor Freight. Blind hole puller. Just a few hard pulls on the slide hammer part and it comes right out

Use a wood dowel/block with a hammer to install the new bushing. I have a piece of closet hanger pole I use

27128 is the AZ part #

pilot bearing puller 27128.jpg
 

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I use a tap to remove the bushing. I think it is a 9/16" NC tap or maybe 5/8" NC. It has been a while since I have done one. I also use it for bushings in a blind hole, like the starter bushings in the nose and back plate. I have more tools now that I bought, used once, and threw in the box. The box is full.
 

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I use a tap to remove the bushing. I think it is a 9/16" NC tap or maybe 5/8" NC. It has been a while since I have done one. I also use it for bushings in a blind hole, like the starter bushings in the nose and back plate. I have more tools now that I bought, used once, and threw in the box. The box is full.
[Heres my two cents worth. 1i have never seen a flywheel like that one on an sbc regardless of size it should be a flat wheel all across. Two that's an aftermarket flywheel and I don't think its the right one for the car. Three those hard spots will raise up again if that wheel heats up. I would replace it. four that needs an iolite bronze pilot bushing they are non magnetic that's how you test them.Five although I have never had problem with a zoom anything I would use a new Perfection American Valeo L U K Borg Warner Power Brute orSachs factory replacement clutch and put everything back factory it will work just dandy. You can check my many posts on clutches both on TC and TC z27. I haven't seen the name Wohlert in over55 years. Wohlert used to be just like DORMAN only before Dorman became popular. If you don't want to use factory stuff use anything you want entry level Zoom Ram MaCleod but not Center force just read some of the horror stories I wont use them for free. Do yourself a favor start from scratch use factory stuff and you will be good . Hope this helps you Alex
 
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