Team Camaro Tech banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I cleaned up my wiper motor yesterday and was able to bench test it tonight. The motor works perfect in both high and low, but it isn't parking. I set-up a ground from the battery to the housing so I don't think it's that. That's problem 1.
Problem 2. I'm having trouble with the the washer mechanism. It squirts excellent, but it doesn't want to stop... I figured ot how to get that to stop mechanically, but once I engage it, it won't stop unless I remove the motor's power and reset the wheel to its stop position. Its almost like the ratcheting mechanism doesn't have enough grip to get it over a ramp it needs to make it over.







 

·
Registered
Joined
·
922 Posts

·
Moderator
Joined
·
11,317 Posts
Problem 1: the wiper motor gets 12v all the time. The parking circuit and switch control the ground path. The switch ground is done through the black and blue wires. The park circuit grounds from the base through the brass ring to the grommet/screw/firewall. If the motor stops when you turn off the switch, then the parking ground is compromised.

Problem 2: (poor design :( ) When the wiper motor is running, the washer cam is following the star wheel (up and down). But it should not be pumping unless that silver arm is catching the hooks on the plastic circle. What moves the arm on and off the circle is the square plunger looking thing on top of the circle. the spring holds the plunger away from the circle (yours looks bad). The electro circuit when engaged pull the plunger in so the arm contacts the circle and it goes round and round while the cam goes up and down, geez!

Most times the cam follower is worn down and the geometry is no longer accurate. I have attempted to weld more metal on and shaping it. not completely successful yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Dave...I fiddled with mine having the same problems as you until I began to swear so loud the wife could hear me from the garage. She said "just buy a new one". It didn't take long to order this and my problems went away!:thumbsup:

http://www.camarocentral.com/1967_1973_Camaro_Windshield_Washer_Pump_White_p/win-550.htm
It's good to see there is an easy option if it comes to it. Thanks. I'll probably end up swearing at some point and give in, but I hate do it when it squirts so well and it looks like it "should" be an easy fix...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Problem 1: the wiper motor gets 12v all the time. The parking circuit and switch control the ground path. The switch ground is done through the black and blue wires. The park circuit grounds from the base through the brass ring to the grommet/screw/firewall. If the motor stops when you turn off the switch, then the parking ground is compromised.

Problem 2: (poor design :( ) When the wiper motor is running, the washer cam is following the star wheel (up and down). But it should not be pumping unless that silver arm is catching the hooks on the plastic circle. What moves the arm on and off the circle is the square plunger looking thing on top of the circle. the spring holds the plunger away from the circle (yours looks bad). The electro circuit when engaged pull the plunger in so the arm contacts the circle and it goes round and round while the cam goes up and down, geez!

Most times the cam follower is worn down and the geometry is no longer accurate. I have attempted to weld more metal on and shaping it. not completely successful yet.
I have it on the car, but I'm bench testing it with wires to a battery. I screwed up and broke the brass ground strap to the isolator so I have a ground hooked up directly to the battery.
The plunger seems to be working ok. At rest, it holds the silver ratcheting mechanism away from the gear. Engage it electrically and it works until it gets to the ramp. The gear is probably worn, but it doesn't look it... Is what your calling the cam follower the silver piece that pumps the diaphram back and forth? I was thinking that didn't have a long enough stroke. Being worn would explain it.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
11,317 Posts
The cam follower is the pin on the backside of the frame. Follows the star wheel on the wiper motor. I may have to rethink my answer, there is something going on with the silver rod behind the toothed wheel. :( my understanding is still a work in progress

Does the motor stop when you turn the switch off?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
The cam follower is the pin on the backside of the frame. Follows the star wheel on the wiper motor. I may have to rethink my answer, there is something going on with the silver rod behind the toothed wheel. :( my understanding is still a work in progress

Does the motor stop when you turn the switch off?
I think the cam follower is ok then. No groove in it. The cam that moves back and forth could be worn though. So could the star wheel. They both look ok to the eye though. The rod that indexes the wheel seems to be working ok until the star wheel gets to the ramp thats on the bottom side.
There is no switch to turn off right now. I have jumper wires running it off a battery. When I pull the wire like I shut the switch off it just stops. I'm going to look closer at the ground, but I did a continuity test and it seems like there's a good ground.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
14,109 Posts
If your'e pulling the 12V feed off to stop it it will not park
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
If your'e pulling the 12V feed off to stop it it will not park
No. Switched ground. 12v all the time even with key off when permanently hooked up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
922 Posts
I'm pretty sure, in my new repro replacement, the toothed index wheel does a 360 while the pump is pumping water, then shuts the mechanism (pump) off as it reaches a specific spot on the wheel...wipers continue to run.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I'm pretty sure, in my new repro replacement, the toothed index wheel does a 360 while the pump is pumping water, then shuts the mechanism (pump) off as it reaches a specific spot on the wheel...wipers continue to run.
By the looks of it, that's the way the original runs too when it's working correctly. I think my two issues are seperate. I'm going to pull the plunger out and see if there is something stoppping it from fully cycling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
The wiper motor PARK shuts off the pump.
They appear mechanically and in the schematic to operate independant of each other with exception to the motor giving the washer pump the power to pump via the star gear attached to the motor body. Could you explain why you think the park circuit affects the washer?
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
11,317 Posts
It does make some sense. The washer pump needs the wiper motor spinning to do the pumping (if you depress the wiper switch in off position it slides to low while pressing). So it would follow that turning the wiper switch to off (parking), should turn off the pump.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I agree with what you're saying Kevin. I don't believe the two systems are connected electrically though and the only mechanical connection is the star wheel that is driven off the motor from what I can see. What I was asking Everett was what the park feature itself has to do with it. Park or not, when the motor is off the washer won't work. The only thing the park operation does, as I understand it, is leave the motor running slightly longer after you switch the wipers to off to bring the wipers back down to the "parked" position.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
507 Posts
OK Sarge, here's the deal....

Since many here may never have seen the inside of a wiper motor transmission, I ripped one apart. (Not from a 69 Camaro, but a mid 70s Pontiac or something) They are basically all the same idea. Here's how it works....


Here is a view with the cover and washer assembly removed.


Note the points at the end of the pencil. These are the points as indicated on the print. also shown is the resistor. The points are shown in the normally closed (RUN) position. When the cam on the gear comes around and opens the points, the ground circuit to the motor opens and the motor stops. (park position). If the ground circuit is completed through the dash switch the motor continues to run. The motor will continue to run untill the ground from the dash switch is opened. Then, next time around, the lobe on the driven gear opens the points., The ground to the motor is opened and motor stops. This is the park position.



This is the gear that drives the wiper arms and the pump. Note the lobe on the inside of the perimeter of the gear. This is what contacts the points. This is also what wears out and causes much of the problems we have with wipers not stopping.



.
.
Hope this helps......Jb
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
OK Sarge, here's the deal....

Since many here may never have seen the inside of a wiper motor transmission, I ripped one apart. (Not from a 69 Camaro, but a mid 70s Pontiac or something) They are basically all the same idea. Here's how it works....


Here is a view with the cover and washer assembly removed.

Note the points at the end of the pencil. These are the points as indicated on the print. also shown is the resistor. The points are shown in the normally closed (RUN) position. When the cam on the gear comes around and opens the points, the ground circuit to the motor opens and the motor stops. (park position). If the ground circuit is completed through the dash switch the motor continues to run. The motor will continue to run untill the ground from the dash switch is opened. Then, next time around, the lobe on the driven gear opens the points., The ground to the motor is opened and motor stops. This is the park position.

[
This is the gear that drives the wiper arms and the pump. Note the lobe on the inside of the perimeter of the gear. This is what contacts the points. This is also what wears out and causes much of the problems we have with wipers not stopping.

[

.
.
Hope this helps......Jb
Definitely helps Johnny. How did you get the gear case cover off? It seemed like the one on my 69 was crimped closed. I didn't want to pry on it and ruin the housing. Thanks for the help. I appreciate it.


.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
11,317 Posts
oooh, now you have done it, grit blasting the wipers when together gets grit in the bearings,gears and electrical :( You can use a small angled drift to gently pry the little tabs straight to get the case halves apart. The you can unsolder the wires to get the motor part separated from the base. then you clean everything (especially the bearings!), paint, assemble, test. THEN you can punch the tabs down. You get one shot at bending them up and down, then they break. Luck!

Ps, I have taken these apart and rebuilt them, not hard just a little tedious :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Thanks Kevin. No worries on the grit. I taped it off. This is what it looks like now. I cleaned everything up the other night inside the motor case, just not the gear case. I'm sure the points that are in there are my parking problems.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
922 Posts
I'm pretty sure, in my new repro replacement, the toothed index wheel does a 360 while the pump is pumping water, then shuts the mechanism (pump) off as it reaches a specific spot on the wheel...wipers continue to run.
The wiper motor PARK shuts off the pump.
Need to recant my statement...Everett is spot on. The pump continues until the wipers are parked. After installing a new pump and wheel, for some dumb reason I thought the pump wheel did one 360 and stopped by itself. Alas, it doesn't cause I just went out to the garage and tried it.:sad: Silly me :D
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top