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Discussion Starter #1
67 camaro std, had it since 89 with centerline rims

original rims on car were:

fronts, 165 80 15, rear 265 50 15s rear spacing 4.50 front 2.5


put cragar ss all around same size 15 x 7s 4.25 std rear spacing

there is a virbration after about 60 mphs which i didnt have before, i took the car back to pep boys where the rims where mounted for balancing even after adjustment the vibration still exists,

1 additional note the front studs are std 7/16 but are racining studs and are about an inch longer than the normal studs, i dont know if that would make a diffrence, only the studs stick out through the open nuts holding the rim and tire on,

I think that i will try to take it to another place, have the studs banged out put on regular size 7/16 inch studs, have the car front end allignmnet done, and also have the wheels balanced again by another place, it could simply be the pep boys i went to, as maybe the experience is lacking i just dont know.
 

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Jack the car up, and rotate each wheel to check if they have excessive runout. The old Cragars sometimes didn't go on just right...
 

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I don't think it's the studs, or the alignment. I'm assuming the studs have been on there for a while and not changed with the new rims. I'm guessing the toe in is close to zero (plus or minus an eighth) and the wheels generally look straight up and down. I think the alignment is ball park. The things I can't see. New tires (are they round?) new wheels ( are they round and true) brake rotors (Warped from over torque?)and wheel balance. My first choice is take it back to Pep Boys that installed the new wheels and tires in spite of the experience (or lack of it). If it's just a balance problem they shouldn't charge you again. If they damaged something and admit to it again no charge. (I know fat chance of that happenin). Next option if that doesn't fix it, different place and pay all over again.

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #4
the tires and rims are new, i did take the car already back to pep boys and they checked the balance and said that the fronts were a little off but im still having the vibration at high speeds the rims rotate fine, and are all new as well as the tires, i bought the 4 new tires at biys and the rims from jeggs, i think i will take it somewhere and pay to get the allignment and have the tires checked for balancing, im just not convinced that the tire balancing was done by an experienced technician..

please keep in mind i still have the old centerline rims mounted on the tires, there is no vibration when i change out those with the new somewhere the wheels simply arent balanced right. I aksed the supervisor again tonight and he said his tech put the weight on the inside of the rims for apperance, yet i checked my ceneterlines when i returned home and the weight is on the outside, i just dont think the rims are balanced right and pep boys is so busy and packed that i just dont want to deal with it anymore, .
 

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I agree, still sounds liek a balnce issue. I wouldnt pay yet again. I would go back to pepboys, and watch them balance them. I had an issue like this and the balance was never truly zeroed out. Until I watched them show me what the balance was at, then re balance them. I would go to a manager and tell them the problems you have had, and im sure they will get you right in. Otherwsie throw a stink so other cutomers hear your complaints.
 

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I aksed the supervisor again tonight and he said his tech put the weight on the inside of the rims for apperance, yet i checked my ceneterlines when i returned home and the weight is on the outside, i just dont think the rims are balanced right and pep boys is so busy and packed that i just dont want to deal with it anymore, .
OK, I agree now that a trip elsewhere is in order, I think you have located the problem. I don't think the wheels are in dynamic balance. Most times wheels are balanced in two planes and the weights are placed on front and back of rim and not necessarily in the same location F & R. It sounds like you have one weight trying to do the job of two and that works but it takes a little more time to confirm it's dead on. There is a possiblilty that you have a tire slightly out of round. A good indepent tire store should find this trouble no problem.

Jeff
 

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i put new tires on at wally world on my 92 chevy truck it vibrated & shook at speeds of 60 -70 smoothed out after 70.they said i had a bent rim.i had front end checked realigned & i bought 4 new rims still had same problem. took my car to a old shop that had a machine that spun tire & wheel on car,guess what 1 of the new tires had a belt broke.who would of thought a new tire would have a belt broke.wally world put me a new tire on problem solved.but its very annoying when you spend a month trying to figure this kind of crap out.Ive learned even if its new don't mean its right.
 

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i put new tires on at wally world on my 92 chevy truck it vibrated & shook at speeds of 60 -70 smoothed out after 70.they said i had a bent rim.i had front end checked realigned & i bought 4 new rims still had same problem. took my car to a old shop that had a machine that spun tire & wheel on car,guess what 1 of the new tires had a belt broke.who would of thought a new tire would have a belt broke.wally world put me a new tire on problem solved.but its very annoying when you spend a month trying to figure this kind of crap out.Ive learned even if its new don't mean its right.
Chinese tires.:D
 

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I ALWAYS watch them balance my tires.

And I ALWAYS tell them to spin em again with the weights on, I wanna see double zeros on the machine or they don't get paid.

Once, one guy wanted to argue with me... he says "we don't do that."
I says "get your manager."
Manager says "we don't do that, and you can't go in the shop to watch."
I says "then you can just eat those special order tires I haven't paid for yet."
Manager says to tech "I'll balance this set."
Manager says to me "come back in the shop sir."
Manager spins the tires a second time after the weights are on. Manager rebalances the 2 that didn't hit double zero's, one of them twice more before it's right. Car runs smooth as silk though the traps at a hundred and ten. With the wieghts on the inside of the rim so they dont show.
 

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Keep in mind just a stone in your tread knocks the ballance off, it doesnt vibrate from that. But no dought it could be balance if its off enough. Dont think a new tire cant be bad. Or a new wheel with run out. A brand new tire can make a pull to one side or vibration. A bad wheel can make a vibration and a bad alignment. I dought your alignment is the problem, unless its a severe toe problem.
 

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Leave the new tires/wheel on the rear and swap the old back onto the front and go for a drive. If the problem is still there it's the rears causing the problem. Or do it the other way put the old rears back on with the new fronts...

Keep in mind you went from a 2.5" back spacing in the front to 4.25" so you really changed the front track on your car and changed the load on the bearings, spindles and the rest of the steering components. It may not be the tires and wheels at all...
 

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Jim,

I watched the guy at WW do this.

He mounted the last tire he had to do for me, balanced it, then removed, took the tire off, spun it around 180, spinning it 90 degrees, remounted it and now that rim has a dog-knot for a wheel weight! None of the other three do!

I have the life time warranty sheet on the dash of my car so once I'm finally driving it, I'm going back and telling them to redo that rim right!

I will just remove the weight and tell them to put the dam dot at the valve stem like it's supposed to be and re-balance it!

Some SOB's love to screw w/ their company's customers thinking it's cool! To me, they NEVER grew F** up!!

pdq67
 

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I can say with certain knowledge that it is highly doubtful that it is a balance, the problem is with either the rim or tire. Balance generally causes issues at around 45-55. higher speed (60+) is usually something out of round.....it is not the alignment. Is the vibration in wheel or seat? There is a slight chance he over torqued your wheels, warping the rotors...I hand torque every wheel my shop takes off to factory specs...no impact gun....if i was a betting man....I would guess your rims...
 

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Oh yeah, there should be a circle right beside the valve stem, this indicates where it (valve stem) should go, if it is off a little, you can throw the balance off.
 

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Out of curiosity, what is vibrating, the steering wheel? The seat/floor?

Also, I've never driven a car with skinnies up front on the street. You went form 15x7s to skinnies and I'm curious what kind of differences one might reasonably expect.

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/vibechart.pdf
 

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I drive to the drags with my skinnies. I'm too chicken to see how well they corner. They're for only going straight.
 

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Hi!

Hope all is well with you. I too would like to know what is vibrating?
It can be the balancing but balancing problems usually show up at lower speeds like 50-55. If your speedometer is off then there is a good chance that it is the balance. I am like Jim, the shops hate me. I make them accountable. I don't even let them jack the car up without making them show me where they put metal pads. You would be surprised how many guys have no clue what they are doing. Alignment machines and balancing machines do require calibration. Many guys have never done it and don't know how to do it. You want to feel like a real a## H. Ask them, when they last calibrated their machines. I would love to record all the answers you get.

How old is the suspension?
If it is old, did you see if any play in it?
If you don't know how to do that, I can explain some of it. But, if you don't know how to inspect the suspension you are probably better off taking it to a professional. Pepboys is hit or miss. Ask the guy working on your car if you can see his certification or certificate for alignment school. It makes a difference. Better yet, to make sure they have a certificate on the machine they are doing your alignment on.

If after you have the tires balance and know there is no play in the suspension, I can go over with you a couple changes that will probably resolve your problem. So don't get frustrated too fast. Many suspension problems show up at the high speeds (fewer at low speeds). On todays cars, guys bring their cars in thinking they have engine problems and they are axle and suspension problems.

When a guy buys tires and an alignment from a shop, the shop really is responsible for identifying the problem if there is ANYTHING WRONG. You can not get a proper alignment if their is anything wrong with the suspension, rims, tires, etc. You will be amazed how how many guys go right to the alignment without the inspection. RUN from these guys if you can. Did they give you the alignment specs? Can you post what they were???

If you bring it back to the shop, do not let them remove the weights on the tires. Have them balance the front tires first so that you know what they are NOW. You should have brought the car back immediately after you noticed the problem.

I have never had a bad rim that did not show up at 45 or less. FyI.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I can say with certain knowledge that it is highly doubtful that it is a balance, the problem is with either the rim or tire. Balance generally causes issues at around 45-55. higher speed (60+) is usually something out of round.....it is not the alignment. Is the vibration in wheel or seat? There is a slight chance he over torqued your wheels, warping the rotors...I hand torque every wheel my shop takes off to factory specs...no impact gun....if i was a betting man....I would guess your rims...
Rims are brand new and so are the tires, i have purchased from summitt and jegs and never have had any issues, at all ever, the tires arent balanced right, im in el paso and quite frankly it doesnt take a college degree to work at pep boys, im not being mean im just saying i took the car back they use the same cguy to balance the tires, he said they were slightly off and yet they still do the same thing?
 
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