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Maybe? I've seen more than one car with the same situation as yours. The fans were running just fine BUT running backwards.

I my have missed it. Are you running a vacuum advance? If so are you setting initial with the VA disconnected and the vacuum line plugged? What is you mechanical advance?

Most seem to like around 10*- 12* initial (VA disconnected) and 25* centrifugal all in around 2500 rpm

If everything check out with the tuning either you're not moving enough coolant or not moving enough air. Another thing could be the condition of the water pump and again confirm the WP is turning the right direction for your application.
 

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Discussion Starter · #202 ·
Just out of curiosity what sort of fuel economy do you get? It sounds like it is burning a lot of gas….

Don
I have never taken it for a long enough trip to even work that out. I can tell you from tooling around after I do Mods its Not a Lot lol.

UPDATE Setting the Timing to 16 (BASE) did nothing for Highway/Interstate temps. That change did seem to allow it to cool off a little faster when in "bump an go" or being parked. However it Idles in gear better with the timing at 19-20ish.

Here is my Theory and I have no way to confirm this till I get it Dyno tuned. BUT, I am thinking maybe its running fat at Idol but leaning out when it goes to Higher RPM's. That's just a guess and maybe its wishful thinking but that's all I can come up with. Having said that I will be getting this thing on the dyno for a tune in 3 to 4 weeks. SO fingers crossed we will hopefully figure this thing out then.

PS - Unrelated, The rear end is now started to leak from the Input seal so YAY...
 

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Maybe? I've seen more than one car with the same situation as yours. The fans were running just fine BUT running backwards.

I my have missed it. Are you running a vacuum advance? If so are you setting initial with the VA disconnected and the vacuum line plugged? What is you mechanical advance?

Most seem to like around 10*- 12* initial (VA disconnected) and 25* centrifugal all in around 2500 rpm

If everything check out with the tuning either you're not moving enough coolant or not moving enough air. Another thing could be the condition of the water pump and again confirm the WP is turning the right direction for your application.
Pretty sure you cant make those brushless fans run backwards.

Brushless fans use multiphase AC motors. Speed is varied by varying the frequency of the AC drive voltage.

Don
 
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Discussion Starter · #204 ·
Maybe? I've seen more than one car with the same situation as yours. The fans were running just fine BUT running backwards.

I my have missed it. Are you running a vacuum advance? If so are you setting initial with the VA disconnected and the vacuum line plugged? What is you mechanical advance?

Most seem to like around 10*- 12* initial (VA disconnected) and 25* centrifugal all in around 2500 rpm

If everything check out with the tuning either you're not moving enough coolant or not moving enough air. Another thing could be the condition of the water pump and again confirm the WP is turning the right direction for your application.
Fan is Not Backwards.
Yes Vacuum advance, Yes set with Vacuum line disconnected, Mechanical is 24 degrees advance Chevrolet Street/Strip DUI Distributor w/ Cross-Fire Cap – Performance Distributors
New Water Pump https://www.summitracing.com/parts/EMP-21104 & Stat https://www.summitracing.com/parts/EMP-300
 

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Cory... I just re-read this entire thread and what keeps popping up is the fact that the car seemed to be running hotter at highway speeds, right? Just out of curiosity I was wondering about a few things:
1. Does your car have the OEM Pontiac lower closeout panel in place?
2. Whats your final drive ratio? IOW, does your car have higher gearing like a 2.76 rear or performance gearing... like a 3.55?
3. Does your trans have an overdrive final gear?
4. What rpm are you at running at 65 mph on the highway?
5. What rpm/mph are you at when the car stays somewhat steady under 200°?
6. What rpm/mph are you at when the car goes over 220°?

What I'm getting at is whether or not there's a "sweet spot" for your car where everything is good. If there is, then maybe there's a way to better analyze what could be affecting the temp increase at highway speeds. I've noticed in my car a somewhat similar "sweet spot" phenomenon is that at 35-55 mph its running under 195° (actually closer to 190°) and the fans are off. If I get up to 65-70 the temp will go up to about 205° on a 90°+ day. Slow down to local road speeds (20-30 mph) and its also there at around 205°. But stop for traffic lights or whatever and it'll climb to 210° to 220° but it doesn't seem to be going much past that any more and yes, the AC is on. Three things I did were; (1) connected the PWM directly to the battery, (2) changed the PWM power & ground wires size from 10 AWG to 8 AWG to match those used from the PWM to the fans, and (3) added the lower closeout panel. My car still has the 2.76 automatic rear, so most of my highway driving is around 2300+/- rpm. I'm messing with my interior this week so the Monster is sitting on the side until I get the panels installed and the rear seat in place. Once that's done I'll pull my shroud/fans and see whether or not I can shimmy that thing in there. I'm also waiting on some special ABS cold weld glue from VA to fix the corner of the shroud. They offered to send me a replacement but I told them to hold off for now.

Hope you can figure out what's going on with your car. Was hoping that the Monster was going to solve everyone's problems.
 

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Is the block drilled for parallel cooling? Correct head gasket? I had a similar problem with a mechanical fan set up. Cooled ok at idle but heated up at highway speeds. Changing to parallel cured it.

Just something else to consider. I really thought you were going to tell us how great the new fan worked.
 
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Discussion Starter · #207 ·
Cory... I just re-read this entire thread and what keeps popping up is the fact that the car seemed to be running hotter at highway speeds, right? Just out of curiosity I was wondering about a few things:
1. Does your car have the OEM Pontiac lower closeout panel in place?
2. Whats your final drive ratio? IOW, does your car have higher gearing like a 2.76 rear or performance gearing... like a 3.55?
3. Does your trans have an overdrive final gear?
4. What rpm are you at running at 65 mph on the highway?
5. What rpm/mph are you at when the car stays somewhat steady under 200°?
6. What rpm/mph are you at when the car goes over 220°?

What I'm getting at is whether or not there's a "sweet spot" for your car where everything is good. If there is, then maybe there's a way to better analyze what could be affecting the temp increase at highway speeds. I've noticed in my car a somewhat similar "sweet spot" phenomenon is that at 35-55 mph its running under 195° (actually closer to 190°) and the fans are off. If I get up to 65-70 the temp will go up to about 205° on a 90°+ day. Slow down to local road speeds (20-30 mph) and its also there at around 205°. But stop for traffic lights or whatever and it'll climb to 210° to 220° but it doesn't seem to be going much past that any more and yes, the AC is on. Three things I did were; (1) connected the PWM directly to the battery, (2) changed the PWM power & ground wires size from 10 AWG to 8 AWG to match those used from the PWM to the fans, and (3) added the lower closeout panel. My car still has the 2.76 automatic rear, so most of my highway driving is around 2300+/- rpm. I'm messing with my interior this week so the Monster is sitting on the side until I get the panels installed and the rear seat in place. Once that's done I'll pull my shroud/fans and see whether or not I can shimmy that thing in there. I'm also waiting on some special ABS cold weld glue from VA to fix the corner of the shroud. They offered to send me a replacement but I told them to hold off for now.

Hope you can figure out what's going on with your car. Was hoping that the Monster was going to solve everyone's problems.
I do not have the lower close out panel - Never had it when I got the car
My Rear Gear is 3.23
I don't have Overdrive - Its a 3 speed TH400
When I am cursing at 65 I am tacking around 2600 RPM (ish)
Not sure about RPM's for Under 200 but its a lot of stop and go and low speeds.
Yesterday the car never got over 210-211 (never hit 220)

Yes - seems to be hotter at Highway speeds. I was also really Hopping the Monster fan was the missing piece. I have heavy power cables going to and from the fans so no issue there. New Cold Case Radiator (2.5" core). That new stage 2 Stewart Pump and High flow Thermostat. I am honestly at a loss. I am not giving up but Its got me stumped.

Is the block drilled for parallel cooling? Correct head gasket? I had a similar problem with a mechanical fan set up. Cooled ok at idle but heated up at highway speeds. Changing to parallel cured it.

Just something else to consider. I really thought you were going to tell us how great the new fan worked.
Gaskets are correct, I don't thing I did anything special drilling for the cooling system. I also Expected the VA Fan to be the fix...
 

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1968 Camaro LS3 TH400 Moser 9” DSE mini tubs
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Are you running 50/50 mix antifreeze?
You probably mentioned that but I don’t remember.
What is your trans temperature (IR temp of the steel inlet to the radiator and the return temp) ?
Just thinking about btu loads 🤷
 

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1968 Camaro 454 LS6, Holley 950, Tremec 5 speed, Currie 9 in
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I do not have the lower close out panel - Never had it when I got the car
My Rear Gear is 3.23
I don't have Overdrive - Its a 3 speed TH400
When I am cursing at 65 I am tacking around 2600 RPM (ish)
Not sure about RPM's for Under 200 but its a lot of stop and go and low speeds.
Yesterday the car never got over 210-211 (never hit 220)

Yes - seems to be hotter at Highway speeds. I was also really Hopping the Monster fan was the missing piece. I have heavy power cables going to and from the fans so no issue there. New Cold Case Radiator (2.5" core). That new stage 2 Stewart Pump and High flow Thermostat. I am honestly at a loss. I am not giving up but Its got me stumped.


Gaskets are correct, I don't thing I did anything special drilling for the cooling system. I also Expected the VA Fan to be the fix...
For the record, I don't have a lower close out panel, YET. I have a 5 speed stick, but I'd say I'm at about 2600 at 65 mph. I also have the Cold Case radiator and the Stewart pump and high flow thermostat. All new. My controller is screwed in to the intake manifold on the drivers side just behind the thermostat. I do have an upper close out panel, but that can't be the reason. I wish I had more answers for you.
One thing I did, that will cool down things very fast, is I installed a toggle switch on my console to manually turn on the fan when I want. It will only turn it on at full speed, but it brings down the temp quickly. Not the right solution for your problem, but it will help. I don't really use mine unless I want to experiment, but it's nice to know I can override when I want. If you want to know how to wire a toggle switch in, let me know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #210 ·
Are you running 50/50 mix antifreeze?
You probably mentioned that but I don’t remember.
What is your trans temperature (IR temp of the steel inlet to the radiator and the return temp) ?
Just thinking about btu loads 🤷
I am running 50/50. A buddy at work suggested I drain all that (save it) and fill with water to see if that helps it cool any better? Kinda sketch but I might try it?
I don't have the Trans Temp but I can get it next time I run the car

For the record, I don't have a lower close out panel, YET. I have a 5 speed stick, but I'd say I'm at about 2600 at 65 mph. I also have the Cold Case radiator and the Stewart pump and high flow thermostat. All new. My controller is screwed in to the intake manifold on the drivers side just behind the thermostat. I do have an upper close out panel, but that can't be the reason. I wish I had more answers for you.
One thing I did, that will cool down things very fast, is I installed a toggle switch on my console to manually turn on the fan when I want. It will only turn it on at full speed, but it brings down the temp quickly. Not the right solution for your problem, but it will help. I don't really use mine unless I want to experiment, but it's nice to know I can override when I want. If you want to know how to wire a toggle switch in, let me know.
I think My fan is going into HIGH SPEED on its own! I don't think running an override switch would accomplish anything. Also - I do have the TOP close out panels
 

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Discussion Starter · #213 ·
Its a Pro Systems carb and it was built for the previous 427 I had - They said it was fine for this Engine but Obviously I have some doubts. I am really hopping the tuner can help me figure something out. 3 more weeks till I can get with him
 

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I do not have the lower close out panel - Never had it when I got the car
My Rear Gear is 3.23
I don't have Overdrive - Its a 3 speed TH400
When I am cursing at 65 I am tacking around 2600 RPM (ish)
Not sure about RPM's for Under 200 but its a lot of stop and go and low speeds.
Yesterday the car never got over 210-211 (never hit 220)

Yes - seems to be hotter at Highway speeds. I was also really Hopping the Monster fan was the missing piece. I have heavy power cables going to and from the fans so no issue there. New Cold Case Radiator (2.5" core). That new stage 2 Stewart Pump and High flow Thermostat. I am honestly at a loss. I am not giving up but Its got me stumped.


Gaskets are correct, I don't thing I did anything special drilling for the cooling system. I also Expected the VA Fan to be the fix...
Do a search on BBC parallel cooling. You may want to consider it.

FelPro has a technical bulletin about it as well. Used to include it with their head gaskets.
 
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Discussion Starter · #215 · (Edited)
@rp030 Are you talking about the holes in the block between the Cylinders?
Gas Auto part Metal Audio equipment Composite material


PS - These are the head gaskets I used Straub Technologies
Circle Gas Pattern Font Metal
 

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Discussion Starter · #217 ·
Yes that's my stuff
 

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I am running 50/50. A buddy at work suggested I drain all that (save it) and fill with water to see if that helps it cool any better? Kinda sketch but I might try it?
I don't have the Trans Temp but I can get it next time I run the car



I think My fan is going into HIGH SPEED on its own! I don't think running an override switch would accomplish anything. Also - I do have the TOP close out panels
Don’t. Run. Straight. Water.
 
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