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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a set of Holley Engine mounts for a LT engine. The part number for the engine mounts are 71221024HKR. The engine I am trying to bolt them to is a LT4 with a wet sump.

There is a pipe that goes from the oil pan to the front area. I think it might be some sort of PVC circuit for blow by.

The is pipe is between the engine mount and the block. If I tighten the bolts, I will crush the pipe.

Has anyone run into this problem? I think I will have to make a new pipe.


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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Thanks for the help and advice.

I have not bought the front accessory drive. I was thinking seriously about Hollys FEAD but now I am having second thoughts. They advertised the motor mounts I bought would fit an LT4 with a Detroit Speed Subframe. I think they might fit an LT1 engine, and Holly assumed they would fit an LT4.

For your view pleasure here are some more photos of the tube. It is an interesting piece of junk. The tube is 5/8" thin wall steel tubing. It has a heat shield between the motor mount bolts.



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Under the heat shield, there is a rubber hose.

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The ends have a modern day flared fitting. I do not know what you call this type. They are held on with a clip. Does anybody know the name of the fitting and where I may buy this type?
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I heated one of the fittings with MAP gas. I was trying to get the fittings to separate from the tube.
It did not budge. The tube looks like it was bent with a pair of Vice Grips and a chisel punch. The bends are kinked and dented.

I thought about cutting the tube and installing a -10 AN fitting. I am afraid there is not enough straight tubing for me to side a tube nut on and use my flaring tool. I thought about cutting the motor mount and welding a round, half tube so the pipe will clear the motor mount. I could weaken the strength of the motor mount doing this.

I installed the motor in my car. The oil pan is three inches from the floor. Looks like I will need a
new oil pan. So, this old tube is not going to work anyway. The oil pan looks like it has a check valve inside the oil pan where this tube is fastened.


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The engine fits. So that is good. I have some room between the motor and the firewall. I think the hood will close.


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It took three months to get the motor mounts. Mr. Dutton, I should have taken your advice and ordered a wiring harness from Speartech. I am still waiting for GM to make one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I think any swap system will require an oil pan change and it’s unlikely anyone else’s mounts would clear that drain tube. Similarly I am pretty sure any aftermarket accessory drive will not clear the GM catch can because you are adding a power steering pump that is not on the stock GM accessory drive.

Gotta pay to play Patrick…

Don

You know that I am cheap. Today, I decided I would cut the bottom of the oil pan off to make it shorter. You cannot do that with a LT engine. The oil pickup tube will prevent this simple fix. :mad:

I found a replacement pan made by Top Street Performance. It looks to be a Holley clone. The street price makes it about a $100.00 cheaper compared to Holley.

LT Aluminum Rear Sump Low-Profile Retro-Fit Oil Pan

Holley makes a catch can that will replace the GM plastic one. It bolts up in the same location. Part number: 97-206 price $79.00. ugh, mumble, mumble, muttering sounds. It accepts fittings that I understand (NPT). It will work with their pully kit that has an AC compressor, alternator, and power steering pump. I looked further and Holley makes a replacement tube and fitting kit for the assembly that I am having problems. Lower intestinal growling sounds.

You see this? I converted my automatic transmission brake pedal to a one that has a clutch. A lot of the parts were made from scrap steel. Very cheap but works good. This makes me happy.

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What oil pan did you use for your truck LT1 conversion?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Maybe I can make a catch out of 18 gauge scrap sheet metal to replace the plastic one. I could use NPT or AN style fittings. Yes indeed, that would be a good idea. Smiling now.



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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
That type of flare involves forged Unobtanium (think dying neutron star) and utilization of other esoteric tools which are unavailable to mere mortals. In other words I have no idea but scrap it for AN and call it good (don't forget the little fabric covered hose in the middle for flexibility - Unobtanium is extremely strong yet brittle).
Probably the best advice I got so far. 🍻
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Not sure this is the route you want to go in but if you decide to use the Holley pan this company makes a drain back kit.
I don't know if it'll work with oil pans from other companies? My Holley LS pan was made in China, maybe the oil pan you mentioned is from same manufacturer that makes them for Holley? who knows?

I used these LS accessory drive brackets for PS and alternator, bolts included that worked out for me with no problems, had them anodized.
View attachment 290085

Maybe they have some LT parts that could be of help with your build.
.
Thanks for the help. Do you know that I am cheap? I am stroking out over a $70.00 catch can. $230.00 for a hose would send me to the hospital.

Hmmm. Those brackets you mentioned fit a LT engine?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I am not sure that the catch can is a simple can. Somewhere in the system are check/PCV valve(s). I recommend the Holley part, this is no place for experimentation imho. Bad things can happen in supercharged engines if they are not properly vented.

I was able to use the stock LT truck pan but it was a truck build with a lot of ground clearance.

Don
So you think the plastic box is not hollow? I was hoping that what I am calling a check valve, that is inside the oil pan, was acting like a PCV valve. Allright, I will spend the money.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The original oil pan holds 10 quarts of oil. The Holley and Top Street Performance pans both hold 6.1 quarts. I guess I need a huge external oil cooler to make up the difference. The aftermarket pans both have the dipstick on the driver side. The original has it on the passenger side. A new dip stick is required.

The original oil pan has an oil temperature sensor. The orange pentagon encompasses the connection. The aftermarket does not have a hole drilled in the pan.


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I am not complaining. This is what I like about this project.

I really need a new oil pan. The original one is too low. If I run over a Nutria Rat, I could flip the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
If you were closer, we could just reconfigure that hard line with a little tubing and the TIG welder….
or you make it fit, send it to me and I’ll make sure it doesn’t leak👍
I really appreciate the offer.

The thin wall tubing is 5/8" outside diameter and a magnet will stick to it. One of the end fittings looks like it was either soldered or brazed onto the tube. I heated it until it was a dull red color, and I still could not get the fitting to separate. After my futile attempt, I laughed at myself thinking GM used expensive silver solder to join the fitting to the tube.

Installing an aluminum -AN fitting on a steel tube might invite corrosion.

These are some of the reasons why I call it an interesting piece of junk. Why did GM route the tube between the block and motor mount? They could have run it above or below the motor mount.

The oil pan should arrive today. I have some ideas how to fix this PCV problem. I will post some photos if it works. So far, no JB weld or duct tape is in the plan.

Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 · (Edited)
I bought the cheaper oil pan. Holley's oil pan is about $450.00 The cheaper one costs $325.00. Tax, title and license and shipping is included with the price.

Here is a comparison of a Holley pan and the Top Street Performance Pan.

The Holley pan has an instruction sheet. Top Street Performance does not.

The photos below are of a Holley 302-1 LS oil pan. The Top Street Performance is a LT oil pan.

Holley has their name on the bottom of the pan. The cheaper one is anonymous. Both are made from a sand cast. The thickness of the two pans is very close if not identical.

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Close up of the oil filter machining.

The Holley is smooth. The TSP (Top Street Performance) pan has some marks. They are insiginifacant.

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Close up of the drain plug machining. Both have identical threads. Both have a steel Helicoil insert.
The photos with the yellow ear plug are the ones of the TSP oil pan.



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Close up of the external oil cooler holes above the filter. Both look the same.

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Close up of the TSP LT engine dipstick hole. The Holly LS does not have one.

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Holley and TSP Oil Pan Comparison Part Two.

Close up of the oil pan to engine block machined surface. The Holly is smooth. The TSP has some slight imperfections. But nothing major.

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The TSP pan had a scratch. Probably from shipping damage. Nothing major.
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The windage trays are made of the same type and gauge of metal.

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The oil pickup tubes are different. The Holly spot welds the pieces together. TSP runs a continuous bead.

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TSP are black.

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Holley and TSP Oil Pan Comparison Part Three.

Oil drain plugs are identical.



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Oil block off plates are made of aluminum. Not much more to say. TSP gives you two of them. One has a port in the top.

Holley photo first.

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Both come with hardware of the same quality.



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The machined surface on the TSP pan is flat.

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The casting inside the Holley pan is much smoother compared to the TSP. Both are rough.

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Part Four.

I smoothed the inside of the TSP oil pan. I would have done the same to the Holley.

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Some smart person should buy my Holley LS oil pan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
The closeup photos of the TSP oil pan shows the worst areas. The machine surfaces are not mirror smooth. But do they really need to be? Both had casting slag inside the pan.

It is just an oil pan. As long as it does not leak, that is really all that matters.


That’s not a scotchbrite wheel is it?
you will blast and clean and put that pan in the dishwasher ( when your spouse isn’t home) right?
I’m over the top against that stuff around an open engine….
Yea, it was once a red scotchbrite wheel. It did not help much.

I took the pan outside and cleaned it with my power washer. I blew out the excess water. I sprayed it down with brake cleaner. It has been sitting upside down on my bench for a few days.

I was told by my better half that I broke the dishwasher's pullout trays wheels by kicking the lid closed with my foot. I bought her new wheels to make up. Then the pump broke. It was said the pump broke because I put dirty dishes in the dishwasher. Apparently, you are only supposed to put clean dishes in a dishwasher. I replaced the pump. Now she will not let me near the dishwasher. I am good at tearing up things. Sometimes I can repair them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I am not sure that the catch can is a simple can. Somewhere in the system are check/PCV valve(s). I recommend the Holley part, this is no place for experimentation imho. Bad things can happen in supercharged engines if they are not properly vented.

I was able to use the stock LT truck pan but it was a truck build with a lot of ground clearance.

Don
I removed the water pump and the stock catch can. I shook the catch can and it does not rattle. It is baffled. I can see a metal plate if I look down the large top hole.

It has a lot of bends in the plastic on the front side. This would be hard to recreate at home.

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The bottom part has the special fitting for the hose that goes to the oil pan. It is mounted at an angle.

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The engine was shipped full of oil. I glad I did not spin it upside down on the engine stand.

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Here is a closeup of the check valve that is screwed into the oil pan. It is normally open. The ball would have to travel up to close the orifice.

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Discussion Starter · #37 · (Edited)
I think you Camaro boys are laughing because your households have similar rules. I am still allowed to dig holes, spread dirt and pull weeds. If anyone knows how to get me out of this kind of work, let me know.

All my buckets have holes in them. That stock pot is mine. I have several large pots to make beer. I use this particular pot for decoction style mash.

Makes sense about the check valve and vacuum. The circuit has two hoses that connect to the two valve covers. Another one runs down to the check valve and oil pan. The last hose is connected to the air intake to burn the evil vapors. The fresh air being fed into the engine will create a vacuum in the evil vapor hose.

I need to be careful. Too many photos and cracking jokes. This thread is beginning to look like a build thread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
I think there is another check valve where the hose connects to the intake manifold. More of a conventional PCV valve.

Later LS engines used small diameter orifice tubes in the valve covers instead of PCV valves afaik. Crankcase ventilation and resulting oil consumption was a bit of a cluster on early LS engines.

Don

Mr. Don Hutton formerly known as Mr. Dutton,

This is from my connect and cruise manual:

Crankcase Ventilation System Description (LT4)
A positive crankcase ventilation system is used in order to provide a more complete scavenging of crankcase vapors.
Filtered air from the air induction system duct is supplied to the crankcase, mixed with blow-by vapors, and passes through a crankcase ventilation metering device before entering the supercharger. The primary component in the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system is the PCV flow metering device (valve or orifice). Vacuum changes within the supercharger result in flow variations of the blow-by vapors. If abnormal operating conditions occur, the design of the PCV system permits excessive amounts of blow-by vapors to back flow through the crankcase vent tube and into the engine induction system to be consumed during normal combustion. This engine ventilation system design minimizes oil consumption and significantly reduces the potential for oil ingestion during vehicle limit handling maneuvers. The LT4 engine utilizes an integral positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system which is located in the Valve Lifter Oil Manifold Assembly beneath the Supercharger Assembly.
The Valve Lifter Oil Manifold Assembly contains composite oil separating baffles and PCV plumbing. Filtered fresh air is routed from upstream of the throttle plate to the engine oil tank where it mixes with crankcase gasses and is passed to both engine rocker arm covers. The rocker arm covers’ design shields rocker arm oil spray, thereby reducing the potential for oil being drawn back into the tank during backflow of the ventilation system. Blow-by vapors are routed from the valve lifter oil manifold assembly through a fixed orifice (7.5 mm) within a steel PCV tube, then into the underside of the supercharger near the front of the valve lifter oil manifold assembly.
The following parts maybe purchased to assist in PCV connection, see figure 4. The system must supply filtered air to the PCV system. Connection must be between the Mass Air Flow meter and the throttle body.

Tube-PCV (1) 12644356
Tube-PCV (2) 12668976
Tube-PCV (3) 12647125
 
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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
I pawned my wife's dishwasher today so I could buy a 1/2 of tank of gas.

On top of the gas pump there was a sign bragging about the additives in the gasoline. Shell Oil claims their gas removes deposits from the intake valve stems. That is good. It got me thinking about a direct injection engine. The gasoline does not come in contact with the valve stem. But the PCV oil vapors do come in contact with the valve stem. The vapors can form deposits on the valve and the gasoline can never wash away the carbon. Am I missing something?
 
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