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1968 Camaro LS3 TH400 Moser 9” DSE mini tubs
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If you were closer, we could just reconfigure that hard line with a little tubing and the TIG welder….
or you make it fit, send it to me and I’ll make sure it doesn’t leak👍
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
If you were closer, we could just reconfigure that hard line with a little tubing and the TIG welder….
or you make it fit, send it to me and I’ll make sure it doesn’t leak👍
I really appreciate the offer.

The thin wall tubing is 5/8" outside diameter and a magnet will stick to it. One of the end fittings looks like it was either soldered or brazed onto the tube. I heated it until it was a dull red color, and I still could not get the fitting to separate. After my futile attempt, I laughed at myself thinking GM used expensive silver solder to join the fitting to the tube.

Installing an aluminum -AN fitting on a steel tube might invite corrosion.

These are some of the reasons why I call it an interesting piece of junk. Why did GM route the tube between the block and motor mount? They could have run it above or below the motor mount.

The oil pan should arrive today. I have some ideas how to fix this PCV problem. I will post some photos if it works. So far, no JB weld or duct tape is in the plan.

Thanks again.
 

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Tim - The Northwest 1969 Camaro
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I really appreciate the offer.

The thin wall tubing is 5/8" outside diameter and a magnet will stick to it. One of the end fittings looks like it was either soldered or brazed onto the tube. I heated it until it was a dull red color, and I still could not get the fitting to separate. After my futile attempt, I laughed at myself thinking GM used expensive silver solder to join the fitting to the tube.

Installing an aluminum -AN fitting on a steel tube might invite corrosion.

These are some of the reasons why I call it an interesting piece of junk. Why did GM route the tube between the block and motor mount? They could have run it above or below the motor mount.

The oil pan should arrive today. I have some ideas how to fix this PCV problem. I will post some photos if it works. So far, no JB weld or duct tape is in the plan.

Thanks again.
1" of tubing to go above or below times 200,000 units = $31.00 of cost reduction.
 

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I really appreciate the offer.

The thin wall tubing is 5/8" outside diameter and a magnet will stick to it. One of the end fittings looks like it was either soldered or brazed onto the tube. I heated it until it was a dull red color, and I still could not get the fitting to separate. After my futile attempt, I laughed at myself thinking GM used expensive silver solder to join the fitting to the tube.

Installing an aluminum -AN fitting on a steel tube might invite corrosion.

These are some of the reasons why I call it an interesting piece of junk. Why did GM route the tube between the block and motor mount? They could have run it above or below the motor mount.

The oil pan should arrive today. I have some ideas how to fix this PCV problem. I will post some photos if it works. So far, no JB weld or duct tape is in the plan.

Thanks again.
The ZL1 Camaro does not use plate style swap motor mounts. :) They are completely different and there is no interference with the tube.

You can see details of the factory mounts here

Don
 
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Discussion Starter · #26 · (Edited)
I bought the cheaper oil pan. Holley's oil pan is about $450.00 The cheaper one costs $325.00. Tax, title and license and shipping is included with the price.

Here is a comparison of a Holley pan and the Top Street Performance Pan.

The Holley pan has an instruction sheet. Top Street Performance does not.

The photos below are of a Holley 302-1 LS oil pan. The Top Street Performance is a LT oil pan.

Holley has their name on the bottom of the pan. The cheaper one is anonymous. Both are made from a sand cast. The thickness of the two pans is very close if not identical.

Font Gadget Gas Auto part Metal





Tints and shades Rectangle Wood Linens Pattern


Close up of the oil filter machining.

The Holley is smooth. The TSP (Top Street Performance) pan has some marks. They are insiginifacant.

Handle Door Dead bolt Wood Door handle





Automotive tire Wood Rim Automotive wheel system Gas



Close up of the drain plug machining. Both have identical threads. Both have a steel Helicoil insert.
The photos with the yellow ear plug are the ones of the TSP oil pan.



Grey Tints and shades Auto part Circle Metal




Arm Eye Snout Auto part Close-up



Close up of the external oil cooler holes above the filter. Both look the same.

Gas Machine Auto part Metal Nickel





White Light Wood Automotive tire Material property



Close up of the TSP LT engine dipstick hole. The Holly LS does not have one.

Tool Wood Tongue-and-groove pliers Auto part Thumb
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Holley and TSP Oil Pan Comparison Part Two.

Close up of the oil pan to engine block machined surface. The Holly is smooth. The TSP has some slight imperfections. But nothing major.

Bumper Automotive exterior Fixture Gas Auto part






Product Grey Audio equipment Finger Material property



The TSP pan had a scratch. Probably from shipping damage. Nothing major.
Hand tool Tool Stonemason's hammer Nail Wrench



The windage trays are made of the same type and gauge of metal.

Hood Automotive lighting Paint Jaw Window




Line Gas Tints and shades Ceiling Plaster




Automotive lighting Bumper Trunk Office equipment Automotive exterior


The oil pickup tubes are different. The Holly spot welds the pieces together. TSP runs a continuous bead.

Bicycle part Gas Composite material Household hardware Auto part





Composite material Bicycle part Scaled reptile Terrestrial animal Pipe




TSP are black.

Ear Gadget Audio equipment Gas Font






Shoe Automotive tire Synthetic rubber Rain boot Thigh
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Holley and TSP Oil Pan Comparison Part Three.

Oil drain plugs are identical.



Household hardware Cylinder Gas Nickel Fastener







Household hardware Gas Auto part Fastener Nickel


Oil block off plates are made of aluminum. Not much more to say. TSP gives you two of them. One has a port in the top.

Holley photo first.

Font Material property Gas Plastic Chemical compound





Skateboard truck Tool Material property Bicycle part Metal




Both come with hardware of the same quality.



Household hardware Gas Nickel Auto part Nut



The machined surface on the TSP pan is flat.

Wood Gas Machine Metal Auto part






Hood Wood Bumper Engineering Automotive exterior



The casting inside the Holley pan is much smoother compared to the TSP. Both are rough.

Automotive tire Grey Rim Automotive lighting Tints and shades





Fluid Gas Tints and shades Liquid Office supplies
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Part Four.

I smoothed the inside of the TSP oil pan. I would have done the same to the Holley.

Wheel Vehicle Gas Auto part Tire



White Light Black Motor vehicle Line




Automotive tire Rim Gas Font Automotive wheel system



Some smart person should buy my Holley LS oil pan.
 

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1968 Camaro LS3 TH400 Moser 9” DSE mini tubs
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That’s not a scotchbrite wheel is it?
you will blast and clean and put that pan in the dishwasher ( when your spouse isn’t home) right?
I’m over the top against that stuff around an open engine….
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
The closeup photos of the TSP oil pan shows the worst areas. The machine surfaces are not mirror smooth. But do they really need to be? Both had casting slag inside the pan.

It is just an oil pan. As long as it does not leak, that is really all that matters.


That’s not a scotchbrite wheel is it?
you will blast and clean and put that pan in the dishwasher ( when your spouse isn’t home) right?
I’m over the top against that stuff around an open engine….
Yea, it was once a red scotchbrite wheel. It did not help much.

I took the pan outside and cleaned it with my power washer. I blew out the excess water. I sprayed it down with brake cleaner. It has been sitting upside down on my bench for a few days.

I was told by my better half that I broke the dishwasher's pullout trays wheels by kicking the lid closed with my foot. I bought her new wheels to make up. Then the pump broke. It was said the pump broke because I put dirty dishes in the dishwasher. Apparently, you are only supposed to put clean dishes in a dishwasher. I replaced the pump. Now she will not let me near the dishwasher. I am good at tearing up things. Sometimes I can repair them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I am not sure that the catch can is a simple can. Somewhere in the system are check/PCV valve(s). I recommend the Holley part, this is no place for experimentation imho. Bad things can happen in supercharged engines if they are not properly vented.

I was able to use the stock LT truck pan but it was a truck build with a lot of ground clearance.

Don
I removed the water pump and the stock catch can. I shook the catch can and it does not rattle. It is baffled. I can see a metal plate if I look down the large top hole.

It has a lot of bends in the plastic on the front side. This would be hard to recreate at home.

Webbing Personal protective equipment Gun accessory Auto part Fashion accessory


The bottom part has the special fitting for the hose that goes to the oil pan. It is mounted at an angle.

Musical instrument accessory Communication Device Gadget Bumper Automotive exterior



The engine was shipped full of oil. I glad I did not spin it upside down on the engine stand.

Automotive tire Gas Nut Machine Auto part



Here is a closeup of the check valve that is screwed into the oil pan. It is normally open. The ball would have to travel up to close the orifice.

Finger Household hardware Camera accessory Auto part Thumb






Finger Household hardware Automotive tire Thumb Gas








Head Automotive tire Finger Household hardware Thumb
 

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The closeup photos of the TSP oil pan shows the worst areas. The machine surfaces are not mirror smooth. But do they really need to be? Both had casting slag inside the pan.

It is just an oil pan. As long as it does not leak, that is really all that matters.




Yea, it was once a red scotchbrite wheel. It did not help much.

I took the pan outside and cleaned it with my power washer. I blew out the excess water. I sprayed it down with brake cleaner. It has been sitting upside down on my bench for a few days.

I was told by my better half that I broke the dishwasher's pullout trays wheels by kicking the lid closed with my foot. I bought her new wheels to make up. Then the pump broke. It was said the pump broke because I put dirty dishes in the dishwasher. Apparently, you are only supposed to put clean dishes in a dishwasher. I replaced the pump. Now she will not let me near the dishwasher. I am good at tearing up things. Sometimes I can repair them.
If you can't go near the dishwasher, I would say you are making very good progress.
 

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I was told by my better half that I broke the dishwasher's pullout trays wheels by kicking the lid closed with my foot. I bought her new wheels to make up. Then the pump broke. It was said the pump broke because I put dirty dishes in the dishwasher. Apparently, you are only supposed to put clean dishes in a dishwasher. I replaced the pump. Now she will not let me near the dishwasher. I am good at tearing up things. Sometimes I can repair them.
Now you just need break the clothes washer, vacuum, and the trash can and you a good to go!
 

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I removed the water pump and the stock catch can. I shook the catch can and it does not rattle. It is baffled. I can see a metal plate if I look down the large top hole.

It has a lot of bends in the plastic on the front side. This would be hard to recreate at home.

View attachment 290374

The bottom part has the special fitting for the hose that goes to the oil pan. It is mounted at an angle.

View attachment 290375


The engine was shipped full of oil. I glad I did not spin it upside down on the engine stand.

View attachment 290376


Here is a closeup of the check valve that is screwed into the oil pan. It is normally open. The ball would have to travel up to close the orifice.

View attachment 290377





View attachment 290378







View attachment 290379
The purpose of the check valve is to allow the catch can to drain when the car is not running. Engine vacuum will keep the valve closed when the car is running. At least this is my understanding.

Don
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 · (Edited)
I think you Camaro boys are laughing because your households have similar rules. I am still allowed to dig holes, spread dirt and pull weeds. If anyone knows how to get me out of this kind of work, let me know.

All my buckets have holes in them. That stock pot is mine. I have several large pots to make beer. I use this particular pot for decoction style mash.

Makes sense about the check valve and vacuum. The circuit has two hoses that connect to the two valve covers. Another one runs down to the check valve and oil pan. The last hose is connected to the air intake to burn the evil vapors. The fresh air being fed into the engine will create a vacuum in the evil vapor hose.

I need to be careful. Too many photos and cracking jokes. This thread is beginning to look like a build thread.
 

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1968 Camaro LS3 TH400 Moser 9” DSE mini tubs
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Just so everyone knows…you can stress relieve rods in the oven at 475-500 for 4 hrs…..but the stress it may cause in the kitchen is absolutely not worth the benefits.
She said if I ever did it again….she’s gone!
I don’t really miss her 👍😆
 

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I think there is another check valve where the hose connects to the intake manifold. More of a conventional PCV valve.

Later LS engines used small diameter orifice tubes in the valve covers instead of PCV valves afaik. Crankcase ventilation and resulting oil consumption was a bit of a cluster on early LS engines.

Don
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
I think there is another check valve where the hose connects to the intake manifold. More of a conventional PCV valve.

Later LS engines used small diameter orifice tubes in the valve covers instead of PCV valves afaik. Crankcase ventilation and resulting oil consumption was a bit of a cluster on early LS engines.

Don

Mr. Don Hutton formerly known as Mr. Dutton,

This is from my connect and cruise manual:

Crankcase Ventilation System Description (LT4)
A positive crankcase ventilation system is used in order to provide a more complete scavenging of crankcase vapors.
Filtered air from the air induction system duct is supplied to the crankcase, mixed with blow-by vapors, and passes through a crankcase ventilation metering device before entering the supercharger. The primary component in the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system is the PCV flow metering device (valve or orifice). Vacuum changes within the supercharger result in flow variations of the blow-by vapors. If abnormal operating conditions occur, the design of the PCV system permits excessive amounts of blow-by vapors to back flow through the crankcase vent tube and into the engine induction system to be consumed during normal combustion. This engine ventilation system design minimizes oil consumption and significantly reduces the potential for oil ingestion during vehicle limit handling maneuvers. The LT4 engine utilizes an integral positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system which is located in the Valve Lifter Oil Manifold Assembly beneath the Supercharger Assembly.
The Valve Lifter Oil Manifold Assembly contains composite oil separating baffles and PCV plumbing. Filtered fresh air is routed from upstream of the throttle plate to the engine oil tank where it mixes with crankcase gasses and is passed to both engine rocker arm covers. The rocker arm covers’ design shields rocker arm oil spray, thereby reducing the potential for oil being drawn back into the tank during backflow of the ventilation system. Blow-by vapors are routed from the valve lifter oil manifold assembly through a fixed orifice (7.5 mm) within a steel PCV tube, then into the underside of the supercharger near the front of the valve lifter oil manifold assembly.
The following parts maybe purchased to assist in PCV connection, see figure 4. The system must supply filtered air to the PCV system. Connection must be between the Mass Air Flow meter and the throttle body.

Tube-PCV (1) 12644356
Tube-PCV (2) 12668976
Tube-PCV (3) 12647125
 
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