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Discussion Starter #1
I've read the posts on 2457 Hooker install on a bbc with Saginaw 800 box so I know it should fit with correct mounts. I didn't use washers between mount and block. :(

I have correct bbc subframe mounts, 454 block and a Lee 800 box. I bought the stock made in USA engine mounts and the stock higher priced frame BB mounts from Ricks. I tried installing the box from underneath with headers installed and #3 tube is preventing the gear from getting in position.

My questions for those who had the joy of doing this, is what is the best order of installation? Headers first? Or box first?

Would it be easier to install the gear if I unbolt header, lift it up, mount steering box, then drop header into place?

Or...

Mount steering box, then try and install header from below?

Thanks in advance.
 

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Mike-

I left the box in place and jacked the engine up off the mounts about 1-1/2" or so. I was then able to angle the header up past the box from underneath. I was working with a lift so that was easiest method for me. Bolt the header up and slowly drop it back down on the mounts

Are you using the factory z-bar?
 

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Something you might try - since the header is installed and likely a PITA to R&R - would be to loosen all of the header bolts so that just a couple of threads are engaged and swing the header in toward the oil pan and tie off in that position. Might give you clearance to sneak the ps box in there. It worked on my SBC, but might not quite translate to your set up. At the least you'll have the header essentially unbolted
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi Tom, thanks for your help!

So let me start from beginning. I just dropped fresh 489 on my sub, no sheet metal yet. My plan is to test fit new 2457s with new 800 box but use my old headers to break-in the new motor as I read not to do this with new ceramic coated headers. :sad:

Do I need to jack the motor off both mounts? Or just the drivers' side? I have a moroso 20403 pan, can you jack up the motor from under the pan? I wonder if it's better to use the engine hoist? My builder actually said that pan is stout enough to support the weight of the block.

I am using the stock bbc z-bar, any issues other than the return spring?

I am wondering if this is worth test fitting now versus just breaking in my motor on old headers and dealing with it afterwards with the entire clip on. The other option would be to deal with it now and just break in the motor on the new 2457s.

I would love to hear your opinion.

Thanks for your input!



Mike-

I left the box in place and jacked the engine up off the mounts about 1-1/2" or so. I was then able to angle the header up past the box from underneath. I was working with a lift so that was easiest method for me. Bolt the header up and slowly drop it back down on the mounts

Are you using the factory z-bar?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
This could possibly work. I have the front clip off so it would be easier to maneuver some of these things, however I was just test fitting before engine break-in so whatever I did to get it in, I would have to remove and redo the whole installation process after I break in the engine. And I'm trying not to trash my headers during this entire process, I taped them up but still...

Okay, I am reading definitely DON'T use new ceramic headers on engine break in. Noted.




Something you might try - since the header is installed and likely a PITA to R&R - would be to loosen all of the header bolts so that just a couple of threads are engaged and swing the header in toward the oil pan and tie off in that position. Might give you clearance to sneak the ps box in there. It worked on my SBC, but might not quite translate to your set up. At the least you'll have the header essentially unbolted
 

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I jacked up the engine/trans combo off both motor mounts with a bottle jack under the pan. Placed a 9" x 9" square of 3/4" plywood under the pan and then several 2x4's to evenly distribute the weight. I think I have the same Moroso kick out pan. Did not have a problem.

However - if you don't have any sheet metal on the car a hoist may be a better route. I like the bottle jack because the block wont swing around like with the hoist.

Z-bar. once you get the headers up past the box, you need to tie them up or have someone hold the header flanges above the exhaust ports. Then install the z-bar. Then drop the header down and bolt it to the heads. Trying to twist the z-bar into position with the header in place is next to impossible. Its a very tight fit, but in the end you will have full range of motion on the z-bar

Spring can go to pan bolt, or hose clamp on header tube.

I used new coated headers, however the 496 came off the engine dyno so break in was not an issue
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Tom, do you mean hold header flanges below the exhaust ports?


Z-bar. once you get the headers up past the box, you need to tie them up or have someone hold the header flanges above the exhaust ports. Then install the z-bar. Then drop the header down and bolt it to the heads. Trying to twist the z-bar into position with the header in place is next to impossible. Its a very tight fit, but in the end you will have full range of motion on the z-bar

Spring can go to pan bolt, or hose clamp on header tube.

I used new coated headers, however the 496 came off the engine dyno so break in was not an issue
 

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Thanks for the help and the tip on the Z bar, you saved me a trip to therapy. ;)
nothing worse than getting everything bolted up, engine back down on the mounts and then have to do it all over again to get the z-bar slipped in :(

Tom, do you mean hold header flanges below the exhaust ports?
yes, below and push the header as far forward as possible for clearance. good luck :beers:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I tried without lifting engine first. I placed header above exhaust ports and bolted up steering box, then tried to lower and position header while comparing to your picture on your post. Using your #5 tube as a reference to where it is in relation to the bolt on top of the gear.

It's clear there is no way that the headers will not clear the box without dinging them or adding some washers between the engine mount like you did.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I thought I would update this. What a PITA. Good thing my front clip is off. I removed cross bolt, lifted engine with picker, removed engine mount and put in 4 washers in each of the bolts, for a total of 1/4" I believe. I found some longer ARP bolts I had to make up for the 1/4" difference.

Long story short, I still can't get that header in. It's maybe another 1/4" off. The #5 tube hits the corner of the box. I think if I dimpled the tube, it would be able to rotate just enough to fit.

You can see from the pictures, the header flange still has about another 1/2" to go before it mates with the head. :mad:
 

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Maybe a call to Hooker is in order. It appears that even if you get it installed it will be tight against the SB whenever the engine torques the motor.

btw I have run new ceramic headers on new break-ins and have not experienced any damage.
 

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I thought I would update this. What a PITA. Good thing my front clip is off. I removed cross bolt, lifted engine with picker, removed engine mount and put in 4 washers in each of the bolts, for a total of 1/4" I believe. I found some longer ARP bolts I had to make up for the 1/4" difference.

Long story short, I still can't get that header in. It's maybe another 1/4" off. The #5 tube hits the corner of the box. I think if I dimpled the tube, it would be able to rotate just enough to fit.

You can see from the pictures, the header flange still has about another 1/2" to go before it mates with the head. :mad:
I know you do not want to hear this but dent the primary pipe and grind the bolt on the pump on a angle, the pipes will hit with a power steer box, but not a manual box.
Usually only happens with raised port heads.
Have you got BB frame mounts?
 

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Hi Mike
Sorry but Going to throw My Hat in the ring.
Post # 10 & 12
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=288586

My Hooker 2457's hit just like that, there is No Way they would have fit into my 69 without Major Bashing.
I sent them Back to Summit, No Questions asked.

Too Many Washers I think, start moving the Valve Cover towards the P/B Booster and the Carb into the hood.

Doug's fit Perfect.
Timmy
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Doesn't the motor torque to the passenger side ? Good to know re: ceramic break-in. :thumbsup:

Maybe a call to Hooker is in order. It appears that even if you get it installed it will be tight against the SB whenever the engine torques the motor.

btw I have run new ceramic headers on new break-ins and have not experienced any damage.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yep, got correct BB stands, crossmember and engine mounts. I double-checked my invoice and part#s as well.

I picked up the 2457s from Holley Performance on ebay, discounted. I even ordered a pair from Summit to compare and they were identical. Actually, the discounted set had much better coatings than the pair from Summit, go figure.

Because I can't return these, I'm stuck with them. It's okay, if I have to, I will dimple them. I swear it only needs a 1/4" dimple the size of a nickel to allow the header to rotate into position.

I know you do not want to hear this but dent the primary pipe and grind the bolt on the pump on a angle, the pipes will hit with a power steer box, but not a manual box.
Usually only happens with raised port heads.
Have you got BB frame mounts?
 

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Doesn't the motor torque to the passenger side ? Good to know re: ceramic break-in. :thumbsup:
Yes and it can lift the drivers side header into the steering box in some cases.
 

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This thread just reinforces my belief that sacrificing a little horsepower for ease of maintenance is the way to go.

My advice for BBC owners : stay away from header primaries bigger than 1-3/4" unless you want to drag race.

Hedman Elite headers are the best fitting and highest rated header on the market. 1-3/4" primaries, 3/8" flange and 14 gauge tubing.

So what if you lose 10 hp at 6000 rpm ? The ease of installation and maintenance is worth it.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hed-68198/overview/year/1968/make/chevrolet/model/camaro
 
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