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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A G.M Ex. said there were only 186 Z10s built. There will never be any more than 186 found. They cut production for some unknown reason and no more than 186 will ever be found. Norwood went on strike around the time the Z10s were being built. Witch would explain the strange 04L build date on some models. I believe I could get in contact with the G.M worker who made that statement.

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 04-14-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 04-27-2001).]
 

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Per the response to your post last week, the # is closer to 500.
There was no strike in 69 at Norwood.
04L was just a stamping error in the date code.

Still interested in the #'s off of your car if you get a chance.


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Kurt S.
CRG www.camaros.org

[This message has been edited by Kurt S (edited 04-16-2001).]
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Kurt im not sure I agree with your reply. Every article I have read says around 200 to 300 were built. The International Camaro Club Says They believe nearly 200 were built. This fits what I have been told be the EX. G.M employee.I believe it is not at all unusual to have 90 cars acounted for out of 186 built. I believe your right about the 04L dates being an error or that the die may have been broken. When G.M does a special promotion run, Usually 200 units are built. I have also read that G.M did go on strike in april. I know what you read is not allways acurate but it does warrent further reserch. I had the name of the G.M employee who gave me the info on how many Z10s were built. He also stated he now lives in Tulsa OK. and his father ownes the #10 Z10. He stated that no more than 186 will ever be found. I believe this person to be authentic. And I will try to recontact him. Another interesting rumer is that the first Z10 built had the all aluminum 427/430 HP motor. this car was also rumered to have recieved blue stripes instead of the usual orange stripes? There was also one Experimental JL8 Z10 with a dealer installed Turbo and an experimental LT1 350.This car has been proven to exist. Mayebee the production #s will allways remain a mistery.

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 04-22-2001).]
 

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Don't hang your hat on rumors and "I know a guy who knows a guy who said he has a friend whose buddy says" kind of statements - 99.99% of the time it's some guy trying to impress you with his (alleged) knowledge, or someone else trying to do the same to him. NO Z-10's were built with L-88 or ZL-1 engines, and the CRG folks have a better handle on how many of what were built than anyone else; they've ALREADY done the research, and continue to do so, and have the documentation and databases that support it.

Some dealers did all manner of weird conversions to keep their customers happy, but nowhere near as many as there are "stories" about them; next thing you know we'll see a post about a guy who heard from an ex-GM employee that three Z28's were built with nuclear reactors and shipped out in lead-lined trucks. Sheesshhh!


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JohnZ
'69 Z28 Fathom Green

[This message has been edited by JohnZ (edited 04-22-2001).]
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
JohnZ I know you are very knowlegable with Camaros I have read several of you replies in other post and have never dissagreed. G.M did go on strike in 69. The owner of one of the first Z10s built is a great freind of mine and has dedicated the last 20 years to researching the Z10. along with six other good freinds who also own Z10s. When I stated the first Z10 to have a ZL1 motor I stated it as a rumer. One I have heard a few times before. I did find the name and addres of the former G.M employee. He and his father both worked at the norwood plant and took a special interest in the Z10. I believe him to be true to his word. as for the JL8 Z10 with an LT1 and Turbo that car does exist. I personally know the past owner of that car. To say a car does not exist or was not built just remember the Z10 was also believed to be a mith at one time. Just because you never heard or read about a particular car does not mean it was never built. A lot of facts have originated from rumers. I look foward to reading other rumers and any info about the Z10.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
JohnZ,
With the price of fuel and the performance that a nuclear sub has a nuclear Camaro would be pretty cool. And the way trends go loosing all your hair would fit in with the now generation.---just a thought.
 

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As far as strikes go in 69 the UAW did go on strike in several assembly plants. Norwood was just not one of them. Norwood continued to produce cars throughout the strike period. The LA plant was shut down from the end of April until something like June 19th 1969. But since no Z10s were built at LA that really doesn't have any affect on this discussion.

As far as the turbocharged Z10 I have seen pictures of the car so I know it exists as well. But it did not leave the Norwood assembly plant like like that, certainly it was done by a dealer and or one of it's original owners. Unless the owner has some documentation from GM I would be highly skeptical of any non production type accessories.

There is also no way GM would let a test bed (mule for lack of a better term) get out of the factory into private hands. There is to much liability on their part for that to happen.

I've seen convertible Z28's at shows but they didn't leave the factory as Z28 either, 30 years later you can't always beleive what you see. I could install a ZL1 (maybe I should use an L79 iron block 427 as an example) in my pacecar and claim it came that way from the factory one of one. If you tell enough people enough times it soon becomes a true. Just like the guy telling you he has the number #10 Z10. Come on, the option was just a certain paint scheme and a cowl induction hood on an RS/SS coupe, how the heck does he know its the number 10 or number 200 car made.

Key here is documentation, documentation, documentation.


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Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Mark you cleared up the strike issue as clear as it can be. I read that norwood was on strike in april. That information must be wrong. As for the JL8 Z10 that car was an original JL8 equiped car with a dealer installed turbo (as I stated). Being equiped with an experimental LT1 is an unconfirmed rumer. I have heard the first three Z10s built were experimental versions and the first one recieved blue stripes instead of orange. As for the owner of the #10 car that is the former Norwood employee. He told a freind of mine he thought he owned the 4th car built. From all of our recearch it seems he might be right. It is one of the very early built cars for a fact. I found his phone number and name and will try to recontact him soon. Mayebee the first couple of Z10s were experimental cars and were destroyed? I find this subject very interesting and hope to hear other feedbacks on the Z10. Thanks for the great reply mark.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
JohnZ, sounds like your an expert on this subject. What motor did the first Z10 have? What about the second? Were they experimental models? were they destroyed? Is it posible they made it to the public. I know of one pre production experimental car that ended up in public hands. While were at it how many Z10s were built? We are finding cars everyday that break the rules. You have agree that it is possible. I am simply trying to find out if any one else has heard the same rumers or has any new information.
 

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I'm with Mark C, the Z10's where a paint and hood option, what would be experimental about that? I guess the older they get, the bigger the legend, Have I ever told you guys about the five homeruns in one game that I hit back in the summer of '75


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69 rallye green X77 Z/28,1967 SS 396 Conv. 1974 c-10 454 swb
 

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May I say one thing not on Z10 cars but on mules not all were destroyed. GM sent a lot of them to people like Smokey he got the frist 70 camaro made it was sold a few years ago. We had a 70 Monte carlo that was sent to Pionerr Experiential in Fl that is what is on the build sheet was not sent to a dealer. So not all were cut up some got out be in a round about way.I have a frind that has a one on Corvett that was made for his father and was never sold " his dad was big in GM back in the 50s and 60s" so some got out. Sorry to but in.

TIM
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Pipeman can you not read? I said (the first three Z10s built). They were (rumered)to be equiped with options not available on your everyday car. As far as the Z10 being just a paint and stripe option I disagree. The Z10 carried all the same mandatory equipement as the Z11 with two exeptions they were coupes and they were available with different interiors. Although the orange interior has not been found in a Z10 it was an available option. Although they dont fully resemble the acual pace cars they are more than just a paint option. I have a picture of my car at the dealership when the original owner just bought the car and it has door decals on it. I know they were dealer installed. The door decals were dealer installed on the Z11s also. She had the decals removed before she drove it home. Mayebee we should call the Z10 the indy so/so replicas. Ha..ha...

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 04-24-2001).]
 

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Jeremiah, lord knows I'am not a expert on camaro's but I think pipeman right on this a Z10 is just a paint and trim option. I worked at a chevy dealer in 69 and I think (but I could be wrong)most of the Z10 were built for the midwest region because they were shorted on the pacecars conv P.S. 1-3 included
 

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Granted the Z11's are also just a paint and trim option on an RS/SS convertible. And the Z10's are the same on a Coupe that came around about 2 1/2 months after the Z11s started being built.

The Z10's never had any involvement with the Indy Pace Car promotion and are incorectly call Pace Car Coupes by most. Can't imagine why anyone would install the Pace Car decals on a Z10 because unlike the Z11s which shipped with them in the trunk, the Z10s did not have them included. As far as having the Orange houndstooth interior as an available option. As far as I know, no car, other than the Z11s had that interior installed from the factory, and it was never made in the correct size for a coupe rear seat. The pattern is reproduced now in both Coupe, and fold down rear seat patterns (which is the same width as a convertible but it has a notch out of the passenger side rear for the latch). I know of some people who have retro fitted orange interiors into the Z10's but the originally came with either a white or black houndstooth interior.

I find it unique that there would be rumors about 3 Z10s being built with some experimental options on them or loaded up with all these desireable options. Is this because the first 3 Z11s were specially built to be the actual Pace Cars and the race winners car. At least there are fairly well documented GM papers that list what changes were made to which Z11 for this purpose.

Until some piece of paper appears indicating these cars exist it will just be one of those urban legends, like the 3 aluminum bodies 53 Corvettes.

How come these stories are always in groups of three.



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Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11
 

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Hey, I'm not trying to put the Z-10 option down in any way, just stating my opinion on the thread. FWIW, there is enough of the " I know a guy who knows of a guy who....." All that does is add to the confusion about the avaliable options and what really was built back in the late 60's. Heck, thats what the classic car dealers are for, right


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69 rallye green X77 Z/28,1967 SS 396 Conv. 1974 c-10 454 swb
 

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This is like '67 L-88 Corvettes - now that they're worth well into six figures, there are only 56 of the original 20 still out there...


And there's nothing "experimental" about a car with a paint stripe and a ZL2 hood - unless it was nuclear-powered...


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JohnZ
'69 Z28 Fathom Green

[This message has been edited by JohnZ (edited 04-25-2001).]
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Mark That makes alot of sense about the first three Z11s. Mayebee over the years people have confused the story about them with the Z10. I agree with you about a Z10 not being a pace car. If there were Z10s at indy along with the Z11s I would say yes its a pace car. Considering how many were built and that they were only offered in a few select locations along with the indy accent package in my oppinion makes it a special car. When I get in contact with the former Norwood employee I will let you know in greater detail what he says. One thing I have learned about these cars is anything could have happened and usually did. I have seen several things on different cars that were definately original but considered incorrect. Like 12 bolt multileaf equiped base cars. Thanks for the great repies guys...

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 04-27-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 04-27-2001).]
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Mark I could be wrong here but the 720 interior was available in a coupe. The only way to get it in a convertible was with the pace car. The Van nuys Z11 are identified by the 720 interior code. If I am wrong im sure Jhon will let me know.Ha..ha
 

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Yes the orange was available in a coupe, I have been contacted by two people that either have and orange interior coupe or know of one or more, including a tuxedo black exterior, orange houndstooth coupe. So I was wrong about the interior, just perpetuating a myth I guess.

As far a Van Nuys pacecars any white convertible with a white top and orange interior is assumed to be a Pace Car. Although there are limits on the production time frame from the 3rd week of February to about the 2nd or 3rd week of April for LA cars. Van Nuys shut down April 9th and didn't reopen till June 19th and by that time no more pace cars were being built.


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Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11
 

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As a owner of a Z10, I don't understand what the argument of how many Z10's were actually made. It does not matter if there is 200 or 500 Z10 camaros that were actually produced. People are always looking for something that is limited. The fact is that a small unknown number of this "color/scheme option" were made. Regardless that this is a promational car,it is still a RS/SS "COUPE" with Z28 strips and it included all options that a Z11 required with added choice of other options not available to the Z11 owner. How many other factory RS/SS camaros do you know of that had a cowl induction hood and Z28 stripes?
I am really suprised as to how much experts really know about the essential facts of the Z10, yet there are those that want to pass it off as a generic replica of a "Z11". The bottom line is that there were less produced and the value is in the eye of the beholder. It is only worth what someone will pay.
 
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