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Discussion Starter #1
Not really a "Tag" question per se, but I figured this as good a place as any:

On a 69, how can you I.D. a car to tell if it was originally a BB car? Let's say there's no engine in the car. Maybe no trans either. Or maybe the entire drivetrain was replaced at one time. What tell tale signs are there that a car was born a BB?

  • Could a BB heater core be used on a car that was originally a a SB? Are the firewall piercings the same?
  • Are motor mounts different?
  • I read or heard something about a support bracket being different on A BB?
To look at it the other way, what specifics are there that are a dead giveaway that it was originally a SB?
  • Mono Leaf always on SB?
  • AC ONLY on a SB?
  • Any specific components that are a dead ringer for SB?
 

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None of those are good indicators for the car being a BB originally as each of them is easily changed. You have to look at the whole car, or the remants of it and make an educated guess, but without any original parts to go on thats all you will ever be doing, unless the car has paperwork.
 

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Frame mounts are different

Usually gas line has a return for the 396/325 and 396/350 motors

BB's DO have A/C, but the box ( suitcase ) will be very far over to accomodate the BB

IIRC the only auto trans for the BB's was a TH400

will have a bigger radiator

If equipped with a manual trans, the trans crossmember will be different. It will have square cutout on the bottom instead of the oval

Most, if not all, BB's will have a 12 bolt

My 69 X11 car was a run of the mill POS 307/TH350 car with A/C P/S P/B etcwhen it was built, but now it is a BB with all those options, and you'd never know.. Be VERY careful buying a purported BB car, before haveing someone who REALLY knows take a look at it.
 

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Darn, I need to proof my text next time:mad:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for all the help... trying to soak it all in. Does anyone have any pics of the crossmember for a BB for comparison?
 

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None of those are good indicators for the car being a BB originally as each of them is easily changed. You have to look at the whole car, or the remants of it and make an educated guess, but without any original parts to go on thats all you will ever be doing, unless the car has paperwork.
Does this sound familiar from...oh, say a week ago on the phone, Dub? :D
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Does this sound familiar from...oh, say a week ago on the phone, Dub? :D
Ya... but that was a harried conversation, cut short by your need to unload some Pontiac POS, and I need a reference point... something I can refer to later. Gotta have a reference when you're as ignorant as I am :)
 

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Of course, if it's a Norwood car built after mid November 1968, it will have X codes. X22= 396 w/ style trim. X66=396 w/o style trim. (or one of the first 50 Yenkos) A b/b with any other X code (usually X44, but sometimes X11) would be a COPO.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Of course, if it's a Norwood car built after mid November 1968, it will have X codes. X22= 396 w/ style trim. X66=396 w/o style trim. (or one of the first 50 Yenkos) A b/b with any other X code (usually X44, but sometimes X11) would be a COPO.
SEE!......THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN ABOUT!

I N F O R M A T I O N

Van and Dave: As per our previous conversations (which I have recorded and have placed in a secure location) there was NO mention of any X-codes being BB, etc. I am an IGU (Information Gathering Unit), and will continue to be until I catch up with the likes of you's guy's.

Unreal: Thank you very, very, very much for the information. It's nice to see someone who is willing to part with knowledge and information to one as lowly as me without taking pot shots. How refreshing it is to have a comment or post whereby I am not belittled or set up to be ridiculed. Some others (no names to be mentioned) have the tendency to mock and shame me for my unwavering quest for understanding while in the beginning stages of learning.

In fact I am SURE there is a conspiracy to gang up on me for my seemingly idiotic posts. I have insulated myself (TFH) and prepared myself for battle (bulking up with chilli dogs). Let the games begin you scallywags!
 

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Thanks for all the help... trying to soak it all in. Does anyone have any pics of the crossmember for a BB for comparison?

Here ya go....
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Here ya go....
Gary,

Thank you so much for the pics. Again, nice to see those who are willing to help without being demeaning. (You know how some of these people are... so full of themselves that they're just too good for the lowly.)

One question:

The "original /rusty" one in the pic has square notches at the bottom edge, but the shiny new one doesn't seem to have any. In a previous post by "Amptech" he stated that the BB crossmember has the "square cutouts versus "oval" ones" which, I am assuming, are from a SB. Are the notches I see at the bottom of the crossmember the "cutouts" he was referring to? Or is the center portion (oval in the rusty / older one, square with a corner cutoff on the new one) with the 2 bolt holes what he was referring to?

Looking to invest in Alcoa stock now.
 

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Gary,

Thank you so much for the pics. Again, nice to see those who are willing to help without being demeaning. (You know how some of these people are... so full of themselves that they're just too good for the lowly.)

One question:

The "original /rusty" one in the pic has square notches at the bottom edge, but the shiny new one doesn't seem to have any. In a previous post by "Amptech" he stated that the BB crossmember has the "square cutouts versus "oval" ones" which, I am assuming, are from a SB. Are the notches I see at the bottom of the crossmember the "cutouts" he was referring to? Or is the center portion (oval in the rusty / older one, square with a corner cutoff on the new one) with the 2 bolt holes what he was referring to?

Looking to invest in Alcoa stock now.
Center portion is what he is refering to.
The rusty one is SB
The sandblasted clean one is BB
 

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Can anyone tell me why these BB crossmembers appear to have the slotted holes in a different location?

The BB crossmember has slotted holes offset to the passenger side because the motor (BB) is offset to the passenger side ...if you are using the correct frame towers for the motor mounts.. Keeps the drivetrain straight. Alot of guys drop big blocks in a smallblock car and dont change out the motor mounts and towers and or crossmember. Ive seen it done and it causes clearance issues with PS box and headers and heater box is/outlet, but it works. The 4 speed uses different linkage for the cluth too. I am no expert but have learned alot from this site. There are a million posts on the subject that may explain things better that the little bit of onfo I did.
 

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Gary,

Thank you so much for the pics. Again, nice to see those who are willing to help without being demeaning. (You know how some of these people are... so full of themselves that they're just too good for the lowly.)

One question:

The "original /rusty" one in the pic has square notches at the bottom edge, but the shiny new one doesn't seem to have any. In a previous post by "Amptech" he stated that the BB crossmember has the "square cutouts versus "oval" ones" which, I am assuming, are from a SB. Are the notches I see at the bottom of the crossmember the "cutouts" he was referring to? Or is the center portion (oval in the rusty / older one, square with a corner cutoff on the new one) with the 2 bolt holes what he was referring to?

Looking to invest in Alcoa stock now.

Anytime...The rusty one is the SB as stated. I got this pic off TC a while back when I was looking for the differences myself. The oval cutout on the bottom of the crossmember that gives access to the trans mount bolts is oval on a small block. The squared off one is from a big block car. Be careful cause I almost bought a BB crossmember that looked identical to this squared off xmember but was from a pontiac and the slots for the bolts werent offset. It looked identical.
 

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The BB crossmember has slotted holes offset to the passenger side because the motor (BB) is offset to the passenger side ...if you are using the correct frame towers for the motor mounts.. Keeps the drivetrain straight. Alot of guys drop big blocks in a smallblock car and dont change out the motor mounts and towers and or crossmember. Ive seen it done and it causes clearance issues with PS box and headers and heater box is/outlet, but it works. The 4 speed uses different linkage for the cluth too. I am no expert but have learned alot from this site. There are a million posts on the subject that may explain things better that the little bit of onfo I did.

I understand the SB to offset BB difference. But cross member in post 16 and the lower one in this pic are both supposed to be BB cross members and they are different.
Why?
 

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I understand the SB to offset BB difference. But cross member in post 16 and the lower one in this pic are both supposed to be BB cross members and they are different.
Why?
Sorry I missunderstood you. This is the same thing I whent thru when I wanted to buy a BB crossmember from another local TC member. We both didnt know that the crossmember he had bought and wanted to sell was for a pontiac which looked identical but the slots were not in the proper location. That may be the reason or the angle of the picture is missleading. If you want I have a new chevy BB crossmember I bought from Ricks still in the box. I can take measurements if you want to compare
I'm sure other TC members will chime in that have more specific knowledge.

I took the pontiac crossmember (at least thats what we were informed it was) and laid it underneathe the SB chevy crossmember. Even though the SB had the oval cut out and the other the squared off cut out, the bolt slots were in the exact location on both of them. The BB crossmembers slots should have been shifted over and werent. It was confusing. I had a pic that I took of them but I cant find it.
 

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Sorry I missunderstood you. This is the same thing I whent thru when I wanted to buy a BB crossmember from another local TC member. We both didnt know that the crossmember he had bought and wanted to sell was for a pontiac which looked identical but the slots were not in the proper location. That may be the reason or the angle of the picture is missleading. If you want I have a new chevy BB crossmember I bought from Ricks still in the box. I can take measurements if you want to compare
I'm sure other TC members will chime in that have more specific knowledge.

I took the pontiac crossmember (at least thats what we were informed it was) and laid it underneathe the SB chevy crossmember. Even though the SB had the oval cut out and the other the squared off cut out, the bolt slots were in the exact location on both of them. The BB crossmembers slots should have been shifted over and werent. It was confusing. I had a pic that I took of them but I cant find it.
Thanks for the info.
Looks like I got ripped off.
I bought that cross member from a TC member in Middlesex NJ and it does not have the correct offset.
So now I find out he was aware it was incorrect and decided to sell it anyway.
PM sent
 
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