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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
That's a big IF.
I've got the ColdCase BB rad and they have a duel 12" set up but the reviews are not good. What do you guys recommend I look at?
 

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Wizard Cooling has some nice Spal options. I am trying their brushless fans with built in PWM control on a current build. They are not cheap but brushless PWM was too much to resist… ;)

They also sell conventional brushed Spal fans.

Whatever you do I recommmend a PWM controller. Quieter, soft start and lower average current draw.

Don
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Wizard Cooling has some nice Spal options. I am trying their brushless fans with built in PWM control on a current build. They are not cheap but brushless PWM was too much to resist… ;)

They also sell conventional brushed Spal fans.

Whatever you do I recommend a PWM controller. Quieter, soft start and lower average current draw.

Don
Are you adding their fans to an existing radiator and shroud or using one of their complete packages?
Do I need a PWM with the Terminator X system controlling the fans? Or should I do the fans separate from the Term X?
 

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1969 Camaro Restomod
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That's a big IF.
I've got the ColdCase BB rad and they have a duel 12" set up but the reviews are not good. What do you guys recommend I look at?
The big question is how much room do you have for fans and a shroud? Do you already have a dual fan shroud? If you have enough room (I didn't) with the serpentine setup where you could fit a Lincoln MK IV setup... that'd be my first choice as that fan supposedly will pull well over 4000 CFM with no load. Using aftermarket fans can be tricky. If you stick with a major player like Spal they are usually very effective and fairly compact.

I had heard about the Contour fans on other automotive forums and then saw this article:
How to tame engine heat with a budget electric fan system
I actually wrote to Jeff Smith and eventually conversed with Eric Rosendahl and they shared their experience with me. That inspired me and I went off in the DIY direction, designed my own shroud and customized the fitment of dual 12" Ford Contour fans. The green area is what I removed. The two fans are still sort of "Siamesed" in that its still one unit with two fans connected by the center webbing. The fan motors are made by Bosch, I've read tons of reviews on these fans and the combined CFM is supposed to be in the 3500-3800 area with no load. If these fans are making 3000 CFM mounted I should be a happy camper.

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The Ford shroud was just a bit too deep for my setup, so I improvised, and had a aluminum shroud fabbed up at a local shop. My shroud is about 15/16" deep on the inside and the deepest part of the fan is around 3". The way the fans are made, the blade sections protrude into the shroud space by about 3/16". I used twelve (12) BeCool rubber flaps to help airflow at highway speeds.

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Pix above show my basic prototype in cardboard/wood, rough sketch before CAD drawing, alongside the finished aluminum shroud, then fans mounted. How tight is it? VERY tight! Fortunately, the motor sections fit right where the serpentine voids are and that's where 2-3 cardboard bucks helped me out.
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I'm still finishing some other unrelated stuff so the car hasn't gone to the inspection station yet and therefore not a lot of long rides. In the 45 minute rides I have taken, the car stays at about 195°-200° on a 93° day. I'm running a 180° thermostat now, and a 180° sensor on the PWM controller. I'm gonna try a 195° controller to see how that works. The PWM controller does not have a big start draw... the fans start very slowly and when the car is shut off and the fans are running, they stay on for about a minute and slowly spin down kinda like my big vintage Delta table saw. My alternator is 150 AMP so I'm not hurting for electrical power. Before converting to serpentine and adding the VA, I was running a 160° thermostat and never had a problem unless I was virtually parked in traffic. That was with the 4-core radiator and non-clutch fan. The engine ran about 175° on a really hot day if I was traveling at highway speeds. Hoping that my Frankenstein fan setup will all work out after I get some serious drive time this summer.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Mike,
I have a mechanical fan, OEM BB shroud and fan clutch.

Don,
I just got off the phone with Wizard and those do look like some great set ups. I need to do some measuring and see what DIY kit would fit. What size fans are you using? 300 or 500 watt?
 

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1968 Camaro 1975 camaro
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Mike,
I have a mechanical fan, OEM BB shroud and fan clutch.

Don,
I just got off the phone with Wizard and those do look like some great set ups. I need to do some measuring and see what DIY kit would fit. What size fans are you using? 300 or 500 watt?
I have dual spal 12 inch fans, they will cool my 489 on a 105 degree day, and I can actually watch the temp gauge go down. I have one set to come on at 195 the other 205(on my mechanical gauge which is more correct this is 188 and 198) so the car will hit 198 and cool right off to 185 and turn the fans off.

This was on my 75 camaro. I was going to use the LS1 style fans but they would hit my power steering pump and I didn't want to give up my dual groove pulley so these were the next best option in my case.

The PWM fan would be nice as it can variably spin to what is needed to cool. Is it worth the extra money? I don't know.

One thing to keep in mind going to electric(as I learned even my cs130 alt couldn't keep up) is you might need to upgrade your alternator--I say this because it is not good to be at idle and just draw off battery until you're moving again(I know many people that do this).
I went to an AD230 at 180amps and went to 4 gauge wire directly to the battery. It will stay at 13.8-14.7v no matter what now and the lights don't flicker when the fans come on anymore :)

These are what I use: SPAL 30102130 Dual Electric Cooling Fan, Straight Blade, 12 Inch

I wanted to do it right the first time because I see a LOT of people having heating issues here with electric fans. They generally do the whole ziptie it to the radiator with 1 single 16 inch fan. The shroud makes a HUGE difference in cooling capacity.
 

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Mike,
I have a mechanical fan, OEM BB shroud and fan clutch.

Don,
I just got off the phone with Wizard and those do look like some great set ups. I need to do some measuring and see what DIY kit would fit. What size fans are you using? 300 or 500 watt?
... to answer your question:
300 watt at 13v is 23amp 500w at 13v is 38amp. Pretty big difference in power there--my fans draw about 30 each.
 

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1968 Camaro LS3 TH400 Moser 9” DSE mini tubs
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Just 1 more,
Is there anything in your Holley ECU instructions about fan control?
The terminator Xmas has fan control and can be configured to generate a PWM output….I believe.
Or the output can be just a trigger for a relay.
It might be something to consider or look into if you do decide on brushless.
I can’t say much about the mark VIII fan, but Carl Casanova seemed to do well with it ,so I figured it would handle anything I had.
Just thinking out loud…. I can give you specific measurements if that would be of any value.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Just 1 more,
Is there anything in your Holley ECU instructions about fan control?
The terminator Xmas has fan control and can be configured to generate a PWM output….I believe.
Or the output can be just a trigger for a relay.
It might be something to consider or look into if you do decide on brushless.
I can’t say much about the mark VIII fan, but Carl Casanova seemed to do well with it ,so I figured it would handle anything I had.
Just thinking out loud…. I can give you specific measurements if that would be of any value.
Yes, The Terminator X has multiple fan controls but I have not researched enough to know anything.
 

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I don’t think you can drive a fan directly with the Holley PWM signal. Some sort of driver is likely needed. Andrew may have figured this out, not sure. I think Carl cooked him up a special controller but at that point you might as well buy his stock controller. Check with Andrew. Otherwise it’s just going to be simple on/off control which is noisy imho.

I used two of the 300 watt fans. I’m cooling a stock L86 in a 46 Chevy pickup. I think it will be enough but can’t say for sure until it’s all done and running. I purchased their DIY shroud kit. The radiator in these trucks is not very large. I know the 500 were out of stock when I purchased.

You‘re going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole… :ROFLMAO:

Don
 

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I really should switch to that holley system... So many features.
If the holley can run them you might look into any modern fan that comes in newer cars
 

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You can also go with a dual fan controller. Staged to turn the fans on and off at different temps. This way only one fan is turning, quieter, unless the coolant temp rises to need the 2nd fan running.
 

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Shawn Lemans Blue 1969 Camaro LS3, TKO 600
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You can also go with a dual fan controller. Staged to turn the fans on and off at different temps. This way only one fan is turning, quieter, unless the coolant temp rises to need the 2nd fan running.
This is how I have my Dakota Digital controller set up.
 

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1968 Camaro LS3 TH400 Moser 9” DSE mini tubs
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Don is probably right…he usually is.
I know there’s a lengthy thread on lateral G ( maybe)
Andrew and someone looking at why the GMPP ecu would not drive the PWM for the fan. It’s hazy in my mind , but most things are….probably too much hexavalent chromium.
 

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This is how I have my Dakota Digital controller set up.
I've used the DD Dual Fan Control on a lot of builds and they have worked flawlessly. LS, BBC and SBC. I do like that you can piggy back on you gauge temp sender so no need to add another sening unit.
 
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When in doubt look at what the OEMs are using. Brushless fans with PWM afaik…. PWM fuel pump control too…. ;)

As far as one/two fan control goes, think about what happens when only one fan is on. The other fan is a gaping hole in the shroud which leads to parasitic draw from the engine side into the operating fan. That’s why you’ll never see it done that way in an OEM application.

Don
 

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When in doubt look at what the OEMs are using. Brushless fans with PWM afaik…. PWM fuel pump control too…. ;)

As far as one/two fan control goes, think about what happens when only one fan is on. The other fan is a gaping hole in the shroud which leads to parasitic draw from the engine side into the operating fan. That’s why you’ll never see it done that way in an OEM application.

Don
With the flappers in the fan shroud the drag of the non running fan is not really an issue, at speed it will freewheel turn. I agree PWM is the best but the Duals work and are more budget friendly
 

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With the flappers in the fan shroud the drag of the non running fan is not really an issue, at speed it will freewheel turn. I agree PWM is the best but the Duals work and are more budget friendly
I’m talking about the situation idling in traffic. What will happen is the second fan will cycle on sooner to compensate for the degraded cooing. The running fan is pulling air from the engine side of the shroud through the non running fan. You are also not pulling much air through the AC condenser.

On this we will have to agree to disagree. I’m just not a fan of simple on/off one/two fan controllers. There are much more elegant and effective solutions imho. The DCC PWM controller is not that expensive.

Don
 
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