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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello All,

A friend of mine just called me. He put me on the phone with one his his buddies who runs a built to death 200-4R in a 1987 Buick Regal T-Type. Allegedly this Regal T-Type has run a best of 9.89 in the 1320. He told me it was fully tubbed, caged and is a lightweight car with a stripped interior. His words were forget all the hype these other guys are telling you about a stock vs stock trans. In stock form pretty much all tranny's are crap. Then he asked would you have given a second thought to building your old power glide 15 years ago? No you would not. Today, P/G's rule the strip in many cases.

He said the 200-4R is the new Powerglide of this generation and the 200-4R will be built stronger & stronger as technology catches up to needs & wants of the racers. Especially the racers who want overdrive. At one time on the strip people wanted the Turbo 350 over the Powerglide, Much the same way at one time people thought the 4L60 was better than the 200-4R. Today the powerglide reins supreme over the THM350 & the 200-4R reigns supreme over the 4L60 or 700R4. Those were his words not mine.

He also stated that just as the aftermarket has stepped up to build Power Glides that cost 4, 5 or 6 grand to hold up to 1,600 HP (at least on racing junk.com anyway) the aftermarket has stepped up to build the 200-4R. The 200-4R he stated is light, it's compact and I may be able to get it into my 1969 Camaro without shortening the drive shaft and I won't have to spend $2,400 for a Gear Vendors Overdrive or more $$ for a 4L80E..

He ended by saying at one time people were calling Powerglide's The Power-slide's, 2 speed crap, junk and laughed at the P/G. trans. Now he said it's king of the drag strip for a guy who wants a light body car, runs a huge engine and only wants to shift one time, not twice. His last words to me on the phone were The 200-4R is the new powerglide and to forget all the 4L60, 4L65E, and expensive + heavy 4L80E hype. "Soon the 200-4R will be the new powerglide, trust me on that". And then we ended the call.

So I'm calling all the trans experts out there: Is this really true? Is the 200-4R rapidly becoming the new powerglide especially for people who want overdrive? Has the aftermarket really caught up that much? or was he mistaken? :confused:

All replies are welcomed!!

Thanks!!
 

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Yes back when I got mine there where very few vendors out there building or supplying performance parts for the 200, and not too many people other than the Buick crowd ran them. Now there all over the place and it seems like everyone has parts or can build them for any power level. I still wouldn't put one into a strip only car. "no need for overdrive in the 1/4" But for a car that pulls double duty there great.
 

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He ended by saying at one time people were calling Powerglide's The Power-slide's, 2 speed crap, junk and laughed at the P/G. trans. Now he said it's king of the drag strip for a guy who wants a light body car, runs a huge engine and only wants to shift twice.
What does the second shift do?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
sorry I meant to say one time, not twice. Forgot the one time part. I had a P/G at one time in my first 1969 Camaro. It was stock just like the rest of teh drive train.
 

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The THM200-4R is sought because of the physical size, lightweight, easy to turn, and has a not-so-steep 1st gear as compared to a THM700-R4. Technology, read it as parts breakage, is showing us history and we're correcting it, er, changing history.

Other trans models to get the gear ratio requires at least $1K for a gearset, and it does not include labor.

I changed from a THM350 to a Powerglide and used the same convertor, after swapping in a Turbo-splined input shaft, and retained the same et & mph.
 

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BAH, HA,HA, that cracks me up. The 2004r the new powerglide. He He He.

In my eyes, No way. The powerglides were built in so many cars it wasn't even funny. The 2004r was only built for a few years and only in a select number of cars, which more than 1/2 have been crushed or melted down.

The 700r4 has been built for 25 years and a revised version, is still being made today ! In 20 years a 2004r will be hard to find and prices for parts will be unreal. Will it be hard to get parts for the 700r4... I doubt it.

People can keep saying that they can be built to 800 H.P. ! Who cares ? The one you just paid $2,000 for won't. The turbo Buick guy's HAD to make them strong. It's just like a 350 V-8, they CAN be built to 900+ HP, but most people only build them to about 400 HP. Example:

2004R XtremeTransmissions
Please fill out and submit a Spec-Sheet for more information.

Product ID Products Unit Price
1 2004R Stock $1,850.00
76 Xtreme 2004R Killer Competition with or without $3,999.00
48 Xtreme 2004R Killer Street $2,850.00
77 Xtreme 2004R Killer Street Econo $2,150.00
49 Xtreme 2004R Killer Street/Strip $3,250.00
 

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You're example is of the most expensive builder, also the one Jody used.
There are two people who actually manufacture the "billet" forward drum that is vital to making a 200-4R live behind quite a bit of horsepower.
One is PTS, the link you posted.
The other is CKPerformance.

Both of these guys also make other billet or specialty parts for the 200-4R. Input shafts, OD carriers and ring gears, etc.
So since these guys are actually manufacturing these parts, as long as there is demand, there will be 200-4R parts.
Your argument that there aren't plentiful cores for 200-4Rs is false, there are plenty of cores and will be for some time.
Besides that, youc an build an entire Powerglide from aftermarket parts now, who can say we won't eventually be able to do the same for 200-4R's, 400's, etc.?

Will the 200-4R ever be the "Powerglide", I doubt it. The Glide fills a few specific raciong applications due to weight, gear ratios, simplicity, etc. The 200-4R, while a great street/strip transmission doesn't have the gear ratios, etc for pure drag racing.

The 200-4R aftermarket parts are becoming more common and demand is greater, so the volume has increased.
CKperformance has lowered the price of the forward drums in the market and I believe this trend will continue.

I can build and sell 800 HP capable 200-4R's in the $2500 price range, however I can also do the 4L80's for about the same, so I try to convince customers to go with the 4L80E if they are truly making over the 600 HP mark.

The 200-4R or 700 work fine to the 400 hp range with minor mods, after that I suggest using the 200 up to the 600 HP level. Above 600 HP the 4L80E is a better way to go but requires either full manual control or an electronic controller. It also requires modifications to run a mechanical speedo.
 

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At least you state, the point that I am trying to make: For a 400hp engine, the 700 or 200 are both fine. And you say that over 600 Hp to use a 4L80. Also Please name a vehicle that a 2004r came in after 1989 ? I don't know of one, maybe as a trans. guy you do. The "powerglide" case is reproduced, is the 2004r 's ? You say as long as these 2 guys in the world are making parts, you will have parts. Let's make up a scenario. Maybe one man just went out of business and the other just had a heart attack and died. Where are my parts ? I would hate to rely on only two people that made my parts. That place that I gave prices from, also states no warranty on input shafts, What is that all about ?
 

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At one time NOBODY made an aftermarket Glide case, you used the GM stuff or you didn't use a Glide.
Now there are 3 manufacturers of Glide cases.

The operations that make 200-4R parts are large enough that if one went out of business there would likely be another company that would buy them out or at least the rights to make the parts, CNC programs, etc.

The 200-4R can be made to work at over 600, but you get into cost effectiveness. Point of diminishing returns.

The 700-R4 and 4L60Es start to get into trouble at the 500 HP level no matter what you do, due to design limitations that simply haven't been overcome at this time. The reason they haven't been is that it requires a considerable redesign to overcome them.
Limited 3-4 friction clutch area, you can squeeze more clutches in, but then you start making the steels too thin and heat warps them easier. You can't increase the surface area considerably of the friction material because of space limitations. Then you have an apply device that is basically sheetmetal "fingers".

If you could keep the 3-4 frictions alive you still have a weak design on the input shaft and drum. The shaft itself has issues and the mating area between it and the drum is another problem area.
There are band-aid fixes but none have proven to be able to withstand 500+HP reliably. That is not to say it can't handle 500+ for a limited time, just not reliably.

That is why I laugh when I see the ads for 750 HP Stage Gazillion Super Bada** Mega-Killer Bionic 700-R4's.
 

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Jake, Thank you, for the expert advice on transmissions. You sound like, a very knowledgable trans. guy. You have answered and clarified many questions, that I and many others wanted to know. What do they put the 4L30E in ? Also what business do you own, so we at Team Camaro can get some reliable equipment from ? Thanks, again.
 
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