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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This was hashed about a bit on another thread over in another of our topic forums here.

I am posting here in an effort to isolate the discussion to my problem at hand.

My 67 Camaro was converted from mono to multi leaf at some time before I purchased it. It uses the mono leaf hardware.

In this PIC (with the axle lifted) you can see there is no through-bolt extending above the top surface of the springs ... it's flat across. Prior discussion has indicated the through-bolt is welded in there at the top.

IMG_3426[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr

In this PIC you can see what seems to me to be the end of a bolt extending just barely into the center hole of the bottom mounting plate.

IMG_3410 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr

I have installed shims to adjust drive train angles. With no through-bolt extending above the springs, there is no mechanical stop ensuring the shims can not come out.

In this PIC you can see the long slot in the shim where the provided bolt (heads) would hold the shims in place.

DSC_3125 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr

Let me add this: The way this mount is constructed there should never be a problem with the mount slipping on the spring. The springs are pinned to the bottom plate and the bottom plate is bolted to the saddle up top ... none of that can really move. That is not my concern here.

I am needing to be certain that shim cannot come out. If I just bolt things together I have no "mechanical" guarantee the shims won't move. If it were to move (in the only direction it possibly can move) the connection between the axle and spring will become loose.


Possible solution: Could I simply drill out the existing through-bolt to the size of my new bolts and install the through-bolts that came with the shims?

Then I have the bolt heads extending above the springs holding the shims securely in place.
 

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Al - Waterloo, Iowa
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Larry, I gave you my thoughts on this in your other thread. Another that I don't believe I mentioned is to fab a spud using a nut, piece of tube or whatever that would have a hollow center and appropriate outside diameter. Weld this spud through the hollow center to the top of the current through bolt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Larry, I gave you my thoughts on this in your other thread.
Yes indeed and you have been very helpful to me ... I appreciate the guidance. ;)


I'd like to be able to do this with the springs relatively in place. Not eager to completely disassemble and remove everything.

Is there some reason I can't simply drill out the current center bolt and install the new ones? I know you mentioned fear of the "difficulty" in drilling. I'm not sure I understand what the difficulty would be? Maybe the hardness of the bolt?

Would I somehow weaken the springs by drilling out the welded in bolt?
 

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Al - Waterloo, Iowa
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Drilling won't weaken the springs but it may be difficult to drill straight and it may be a grade 8 bolt. That's tough to drill. You won't want any old bolt remnants left in the hole. I'm not sure what to tell you to expect when you get to the welded end. It could be crazy hard or not. Do you have a backup plan if the drilling fails? Give it a shot if you want. It's just not my preferred method.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Do you have a backup plan if the drilling fails?
If the bolt is too hard to drill, it will become apparent very quickly. As far as back-up plan ... I don't have a plan I'm happier with now.

Not that I don't appreciate your input, but I was hoping to draw a few more minds into the discussion. Possibly some different ideas.

I do actually have an alternative plan. One I've not dipped too deep into it yet. I'm unsure of how well I like it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just remove it and take it to the local spring shop for center pins and fix it right the first time. Then drive happy.
Sounds pretty sensible doesn't it.

I just called Skip's Spring Service here in Vegas. They did some work on my company van years.

I think I will go ahead and put the car and axle both on stands, drop the springs and let Skip's do it.

I do about everything on this car myself, but this is getting a bit out of my league.

In talking to the tech on the phone, he indicates the bolts may be countersunk on top, but should not be welded.
 

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Assuming your car sat at the correct ride height, or the height you like, make sure you mark left and right so they back to the same side. Mark the front so it goes back in the same direction. If the bushings are suspect, now is the time to change them.…hardware too. Do some research before you go. Knowledge is power and you don’t know what you don’t know. Upload before and after pictures.
 

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I can't say for sure about being welded, but the springs I worked on just had a countersunk hole in the spring as you mentioned, and not welded. Perhaps there is just crud in there, maybe try to dig around in there to see if it is welded or not. If it's not welded, just put a heavy-duty c-clamp on both sides to hold the spring together and replace the bolt. An option to make sure the bolt head, or nut, protrudes into the lower plate hole or thru the shims is to source a thick enough spacer / collar to put under the head or nut.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Assuming your car sat at the correct ride height, or the height you like, make sure you mark left and right so they back to the same side. Mark the front so it goes back in the same direction. If the bushings are suspect, now is the time to change them.…hardware too. Do some research before you go.
I'm at the rear shackles now. Looking pretty bad.

I put new bushings in the front a while back. Intention was to do the rear, but the bushings were wrong. I guess I'll get another crack at those now. I might order new shackles and bolts ... I'll see how crapped out the current stuff is once it's out.

I'm happy with the ride height and ride quality now, so no desire to change anything there.
 

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68 Base Camaro 355 Offy crossram Richmond Super Street close ratio 5 spd ivy gold 92K SoCal car
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Larry if you are happy with your ride height dont change the shackles. I ordered OER shackle & bolt kit installed them along with KYB Gas-A- Jst shocks, ( NEVER use these shocks, ended up throwing them away), and the rear sat 3 inches too high. Removed the KYB for spiral shocks and car still an inch too high. Loosened shackkes bounced the car up and down again without shocks and still too high. Removed new shackles and found they are almost an inch longer on the bolt spacing. Threw those away too. Keep your GM shackles, but the OER bolts are worth using because the square under the carriage bolt head is longer than GM and stays engaged into shackle better when tightening.

Anyone digging through my trash could have probably built another 68 Camaro with all the garbage repro parts these vendors sell that I throw out! I find very little of it useful or usable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My inclination on this car is to stick with the original stuff wherever I can.

the exterior surface on the shackles is pretty corroded.

I think they are structurally fine though.

I’ll probably just sand blast them and put on a heavy coat of epoxy, then a outer shell of black paint.

I called it a day on this last night. The corrosion is making disassembly of the shackles a real contest.

I’ll take another shot at it after work today. 😜
 

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1968 Camaro LS3 TH400 Moser 9” DSE mini tubs
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I bet it’s not welded. You just have to be a heavy hammer swinging fool like me to get that stuff apart.
Save your fingers and get a pair of vise grips to hold that punch. Once it starts moving…this will all come together like butt cheeks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I was able to get the springs off without too much trouble tonight.

I did discover my bolts are in tough shape. Besides normal corrosion they have been hit with grinders and cutters, had threads stripped out ... not good.

I ordered a set of these:
Leaf Spring Shackle OE type 8pc Bolts Kit w/ Slitted Nuts 67-69 Camaro Firebird | eBay

I'll clean up the shackles and re-use. They are in decent condition.

My bushings look quite good as well. Seem to be "poly" not rubber. I'm going to use them. They are completely undamaged.
 

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68 Base Camaro 355 Offy crossram Richmond Super Street close ratio 5 spd ivy gold 92K SoCal car
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Thats good new Larry. I have been there, bottom side of a 54 year old car disassembly is rarely easy, especially the older I get I want less time laying on cement under the car. New hardware is always the right call. I think you are doing the right thing with restoring the original shackles too. Hopefully the new bolts have the deeper square base under the bolt head like mine did, sure made installation easier than the factory bolts that easily popped out of the square shackle holes when tightening. Remember not to tighten them until weight of car is on tires.

I have heard others on this site say poly bushings in the shackles like you have, and rubber on the front eye, which you probably have because those are pressed into spring eye. The reasoning supposedly is most of the road noise is transferred to interior comes from the forward rear spring mount, this is supposed to be the best set up on street cars. Of course I read that AFTER I install my new springs with rubber shackle bushings, so probably do it one more time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
This is what the springs are, though it doesn't tell me much.

We have the 21-245 visible and the other number mostly covered in overspray is D71523

IMG_3466[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr

The front bushings were pressed in just three or four years ago.

The springs are in the wife's car and will be dropped off at Skip's Spring Service tomorrow afternoon. New bolts should be here on Monday or Tuesday (my next days off). I'll get the remaining parts cleaned up, sand blasted and protected over the next few days.

Once I get the springs back in along with the shims I'll be ready to fire up the new 383. It's been a long road since November when this all began.

My wife will be glad because she will no longer have to drop me off at work every morning at 5:30am. She has been dropping me off and I take the bus home in the afternoon ... since this started in November. :(
 

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1968 Camaro LS3 TH400 Moser 9” DSE mini tubs
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This is what the springs are, though it doesn't tell me much.

We have the 21-245 visible and the other number mostly covered in overspray is D71523

IMG_3466[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr

The front bushings were pressed in just three or four years ago.

The springs are in the wife's car and will be dropped off at Skip's Spring Service tomorrow afternoon. New bolts should be here on Monday or Tuesday (my next days off). I'll get the remaining parts cleaned up, sand blasted and protected over the next few days.

Once I get the springs back in along with the shims I'll be ready to fire up the new 383. It's been a long road since November when this all began.

My wife will be glad because she will no longer have to drop me off at work every morning at 5:30am. She has been dropping me off and I take the bus home in the afternoon ... since this started in November. :(
Your making progress and it’s always good to hear someone is close to being on the road 👍
 

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Triangle Spring requires an account to search their online catalogue. But entering your pn 21-245 took me to Springworks.com and the specs for their 21-245R 67-9 Camaro rear springs. This may be your spring? I ordered mine from Beattie Spring bc made in USA like yours are and found the specs for mine provided by another USA manufacturer who manufactures them for Beattie. Yours may be the same deal, company selling them procures from another manufacturer possibly.


Plant Font Parallel Rectangle Slope
Font Parallel Rectangle Document Number
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Springs are delivered. Should be a quick turnaround.

Skip indicates that I really should use the pads on the bottom. They include a metal ring/nub that matches the size of the hole in the bottom mount to center the spring on the mount. The bolt head protruding downward to the mount is smaller than the hole in the mount and this steel nub on the rubber pad takes up that extra gap.

As this PIC shows, one of my pads in missing that steel ring/nub. Looks like I need new pads.

IMG_3477[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr

Hopefully Skip has the correct pads available.
 
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