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Discussion Starter · #1 ·


http://www.artmorrison.com/2006cat/35.pdf
http://www.detroitspeed.com/productpages/subframe.htm

Alright, Guys here is my car and these r two of the frames i am looking at to up grade my front suspension.

My car needs a new powersteering gearbox, new brakes and bushings and pretty much all of the front suspension. i want as little down time on my car as possible but i also want a reliable frame

So guys would U Buy a new aftermarket frame or would u buy a donor frame and transfer new parts to it

My plans for my car r as follow I am pulling the 383 and going back with a LS1 or ZZ4 block depending on funds after suspension and paint I want a good cornering and streetability so as to keep up with higher end cars
Thanks for the input

Also any rear suspension options would be appreciated as i have not started researching them yet

Dusty
 

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How much you want to spend? Both of those are very nice & lots of $$$$$. And that includes wheels, tires & brakes. It's all a package and you'll find your weak spot fast. I could see complete deals breaking $15k without trying real hard.

Better question: What is the intended use: All street. Road Racing? AutoX? That matters. If it is all street, I think a lot of stuff out there is overkill.

Goals & $$$. That will help you back into the right answers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well scott I have the money for the frame and from what i have seen it would cost about the same to restore my stock frame with new products my intentions r to start buy getting the frame and engine first then brakes and wheels next year seeing as though i will wait till i have everything to start dissassembling my Car and i can buy cheaper brake set ups than the name brand but the suspension is pretty much uniform
 

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I'm putting mine together right now and I went with basically everything new except the sub frame.
Using DSE UCA,LCA pitman, idlers, tie rods, Quick Ratio steering box, Baer master cyl, booster, Baer Track 4 wheel disc, Hotchkis TVS and QA1 front coil overs, Billet Intro wheels and tires for just about $7,000.
Whew that's a lot to say :D
Not too bad considering everything I got.
If time is a factor then you might just do something similar. Unless you have alot of free time after work and feel like working on your car then maybe the sub frame is the way to go.

I will have mine back together by next week. Should be sweet.

Good luck.

Rich
 

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IMO, the aftermarket subs are nice, but bang for buck they're not worth it.
Don't forget about 21st century street machines if you decide to go with a new sub.
http://www.21stcenturystreetmachines.com/products.php?item=subframes
Before we can talk about what is right for your car, what are your goals for the car? Weekend cruiser? Daily Driver? Auto-X, Drag Race? If it's street only, that $ spent on an aftermarket subframe will not be realized in performance.

Rear leaf springs can be designed to work very well. If you retain the leafs, match them to your front springs. There are many other options to consider, like the Lateral Dynamics 3 link.
http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/products/
 

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from what i have seen it would cost about the same to restore my stock frame with new products
Absolutely not! The stock subframe can be rebuilt with the Guldstrand mod (free), stock UCA/LCA with Delrin/Delalum bushings (aproximately $390, including billet offset UCA shafts), rebuilt steering linkage and new ball joints (Moog parts - maybe $150), replacement coil springs (Hotchkis/Global West - $175), good shocks (say $300), a 3rd Gen IROC steering box (maybe $275 including the Lee Manufacturing rag joint and adapters) and a good sway bar (say $220) for a total of $1550. A car set up like this, with subframe connectors, decent leaf springs and shocks on the rear end, modern wheels and tires and a performance alignment handles extremely well.

If you buy an aftermarket subframe, you're paying $4,000 to $5,000 for a marginal improvement in perfromance and a lot of bling. If you've got the money to spend God bless you, go for it; if not, spend it where it'll really do you some good.

But unless you're trying to convince a wife/girlfriend :yes:, don't try to sell the "it costs the same either way" line here.
 

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Hey matt what kinda frame is that what did u give for it and were u happy with it

The frame is from a place in ohio called checkeredracing.com

I got everything for 2k. Subframe, mustang 2 rack and pinion, disc brakes, cross drilled and slotted rotors, 2" drop spindles, cross member, motor mounts

havent installed it yet bc its gotta welded in to the sub connectors
 

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There's something that needs to be cleared up here.

Aftermarket subframes offer many, many advantages that stock subframes can't offer. Being the engineer here at Art Morrison, I'm running the First Gen Camaro clip on my car, my old subframe was blinged out with all the latest performance pieces: ATS, DSE, BAER, etc.

Our new subframe has a geometry that can't be obtained with the stock clip. It's like driving a whole different car. It's pretty much like driving a new Z06.

Don't get me wrong, you can do alot with the stock subframe. But if you want to go a little farther, there are products out there that can help you out. However, be very careful about which one you choose. Out of all the aftermarket subframes out there (and I mean all), there are only two I would purchase (ours included). The rest have serious strength or geometry issues (assuming for a handling type application).
 

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Hey Matt-

I was wondering if you could post up a graph showing static alignment settings, camber gain, bumpsteer, and caster? I like to compare hard numbers between suspensions, and I already know what both the DSE $7K frame and the DSE stage 3 kit can do, so I'd like to see what the C5 frame can do as far as camber gain per inch of suspension travel, and total bumpsteer numbers.

Tyler
 

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Out of all the aftermarket subframes out there (and I mean all), there are only two I would purchase (ours included). The rest have serious strength or geometry issues (assuming for a handling type application).
So which of DSE or 21st Century Street Machine are you leaving off your list? :D
 

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Tyler-
I don't have access to the web account to post pictures (Craig does), so here's what I can tell you:
Static caster/camber/toe: 5.9*/-0.5*/ 0
Caster @ 2" bump/rebound: 6.9* / 4.9*
Camber @ 2" bump/rebound: -2* / .05*
Toe @ 2" bump/rebound: .015" (in) / .003" (in)

IMO, comparing toe figures is a wash. It doesn't really matter what the toe is doing in a simple bump & rebound situation, but it really important when body roll is introduced. It gives a more accurate description on how the car will feel when turning around corners. Ours is set up in a road course manner, where high speed cornering with only a fair amount of steering input is used...compared to an autocross where speeds are slower but with sharper turns. Is the average driver going to notice the difference? Not at all.

Keep in mind, for those of you who are not familiar, that the geometry designed into each suspension is an interpretation on what that engineer/designer feels is best. I have a wealth of personal experience on road courses (as does Kyle and Stacy), and I can tell that we differ a bit on what suspension behavior we like. And that's OK, and like I said before, 99% of people wont be able to tell the difference.
 
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