Team Camaro Tech banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've got a question that I need answered in terms of severity. About a week ago I purchased a 1990 RS with the 305. Everything is in good shape and only has 120k on the original motor. I started my bumper to bumper tune up yesterday and for the first few hours everything was going smoothly. I took the oil cap off and it looked kind of dirty, nothing too crazy so I decided to flush it out. Ran the flush, went underneath to drain it all out. No problem with the drain plug but when I went for the oil filter it felt like the damn thing was cemented on there. So I reach for my filter wrench and it still woudln't budge the filter. Now I'm 6' 9" about 243 and a kickboxer so I think i'm in pretty good physical shape. No amount of brute force with my hands, the filter wrench or anything could move that filter. I grab my PB Blaster (penetrating catalyst) and shoot it on around the seal, wait a min then tap the handle of the oil wrench with a mallet, then I tap harder. The wrench is slipping around the filter and does NOTHING. I check the wrench and its in perfect shape so at this point i'm starting to get agitated. 3-5 more tries with different things and it was pointless. Now i'm an hour and a half into 1 oil change so I decide to throw caution to the wind and I take an old flathead screwdriver and use my hammer to punch it through the center of the filter so i could put a pipe on the end for better torque. NOTHING!!!!! So now i'm kind of nervous because I was thinking that someone put locktite or something stupid on to seal a leak on it. Before I give up for fear of damaging anything, I had my friend hold the pipe straight so I could get a good wind up. BAM! the screwdriver rips alomost all the way around the filter and I finally broke the seal. It was a struggle to get the thing all the way off but it was finally off. I examine the filter and can't see the brand name or manufacture date (worn off) I replace it and the oil with Mobile 1 oil and filter, runs a lot better. Now could this have been a freak incident? or does it show signs that the previous owner hadn't changed the oil in a REALLY long time or just never replaced the filter? I'm not sure what do think about the situation. Thoughts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
I would guess it was either put on way too tight and/or it had been on there a long long time. I would just drive it and see how it does. Personally I wouldn't have used Mobil 1 with that many miles on it unless the previous owner used synthetic. Other members might disagree with that but after that many miles I would continue to use what's been run in it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,772 Posts
I have run across a few stubborn filters in the past. It is caused knuckleheads that over tighten the filter. The correct way to install the filter is to spin it on until it the gasket makes contact, then give it a quarter of a turn more to seal it. I have done it this way for years and have never had one leak. Tightening it further only causes grief for the next guy when he tries to remove it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,222 Posts
We had a thread like this awhile back and I had a remembrance that I decided was pertinent.

Did your old motor oil smell like fuel?

Here's why I ask. I am an oilfield mechanic, and we used to have a certain type of single-acting natural gas compressor that would occasionally "swamp" the crankcase with condensates(natures own gasoline). The oil filters were always hard as hell to remove, even if you had installed it the day before and correctly. The hydrocarbons would swell hell out of the rubber seal, increasing the crush.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I would guess it was either put on way too tight and/or it had been on there a long long time. I would just drive it and see how it does. Personally I wouldn't have used Mobil 1 with that many miles on it unless the previous owner used synthetic. Other members might disagree with that but after that many miles I would continue to use what's been run in it.
I agree with you but the problem is the owner said he had used a full synthetic and the oil was so dirty that I couldn't tell either way. Are you saying Mobile 1 is going to hinder the engines ability or wear out some seals or something? I can drain it out just as easy and put something else in there because i haven't driven it more than 15 miles since yesterday. This is my first newer camaro that i've owned and I always used Mobile 1 after rebuilds in a 69' SS and 71' so i'm kind of at a crossroads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,081 Posts
We had a thread like this awhile back.....

It may have been my thread back in the summer :). I had the very same issue. Worst filter problem I've ever encountered, and it was my 1st change since I had bought my car.

I did everything the OP did, but I finally went and bought one of those filter wrenches that's simply a nylon material with a fitting for a 3/8" ratchet to twist it off. It worked! Even after I "broke" the seal...I still had to fight through at least 3 full revolutions before the damn thing would spin off. Unbelievable! This cloth/nylon "filter wrench" is only a few bucks....and well worth much more :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,804 Posts
take a old long screwdriver and drive it completely through the filter with a hammer. Then you can simply use the screwdriver handle to screw/lever it off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,303 Posts
I finally went and bought one of those filter wrenches that's simply a nylon material with a fitting for a 3/8" ratchet to twist it off.
After some fine advice from your Team Camaro brothers...;)

Ryan -
First, welcome to Team Camaro!

The main concern with Mobil 1 in a higher mileage engine with unknown previous oil types and/or ridiculously "extended" oil change intervals is that the detergent package in Mobil 1 can loosen up some of the gunk that's built up, and if the gunk happened to be keeping something from leaking, then you could start seeing leaks. But...

IMO, cleaning the engine out is not a bad thing, you just want to run a good quality filter, and maybe shorten the change interval to 3,000 miles or so until things clean out.

Mobil has a pretty good website with a lot of answers. I'm linking to the Mobil 1 High Mileage page, because the top question sort of deals with what we're talking about. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_Clean_High_Mileage_FAQs.aspx

As soon as I can get some free time, I am going to change the oil my builder put in the 396 for Mobil 1 High Mileage. It has the ZDDP that we flat tappet guys need (I think). Your 90 should be a roller cam, so regular Mobil 1 is probably just fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,277 Posts
How did the shell of the filter look? Was it a mess or did it look fairly new? That might give you some indication of the age. A good used car buyers trick for predicting oil change habbits of a previous owner is to look at the inside of the oil cap. If it's caked with crust and stanky it may have been neglected. The cap likely will have some amount of film on it, but it should wipe clean and smell like oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
I agree with you but the problem is the owner said he had used a full synthetic and the oil was so dirty that I couldn't tell either way. Are you saying Mobile 1 is going to hinder the engines ability or wear out some seals or something? I can drain it out just as easy and put something else in there because i haven't driven it more than 15 miles since yesterday. This is my first newer camaro that i've owned and I always used Mobile 1 after rebuilds in a 69' SS and 71' so i'm kind of at a crossroads.
If the previous owner always used synthetic then you should have no problem. I run Mobil 1 in my truck and have around 125k miles and have never had a leak. I was just saying if the previous owner used conventional then switching oils might cause gaskets to leak. I've personally never experienced the problem but I've read it many times on different forums over the years.

On an odd side note, I had an sbc that wouldn't run on synthetic or synthetic blend oil. It was crazy thinking back about it, but I always had to run conventional oil and AC Delco plugs otherwise the engine ran horrible. :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,305 Posts
i wouldn't worry about the Mobil 1 causing a leak... if it's gonna leak, it's gonna leak no matter what you put in it.
i wonder if the last guy to change the oil bothered to wipe some oil on the seal before screwing the new filter on? yeah, i know, it's really hard to stick your finger in the oil filter after you fill it (you DO fill the filter before screwing it on, right???) and wipe some of it on the seal...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
426 Posts
take a old long screwdriver and drive it completely through the filter with a hammer. Then you can simply use the screwdriver handle to screw/lever it off.
He did that..... and it worked :thumbsup:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
21,341 Posts
He, He!!

This crap is why I like the can!! BUT it can be a pain removing the big "O"-ring at times tho, plus, you gotta wash the can out.

I have an ice pick somewhere I always used to pull the "O"-ring.

pdq67
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,817 Posts
The problem with the screw driver method is the filter housing can easily tear. If a band type filter wrench is slipping I put a strip of sand paper between the filter case and filter wrench for grip. I may distort the filter housig but they will come off. Gotta love those initial oil changes with a new(er) vehicle!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,942 Posts
Guess we all have at one time had a WHACK at using the time tested big screwdriver through the oil filter to get the darn thing off! Have found that the big sized rubber strap tool really grips well and rarely slips. But, now have gone the next step and only use the K&N oil filer which requires an open end box wrench to loosen. it's a great filter... does cost a bit more, but built like a tank.

cap68
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
538 Posts
Guess we all have at one time had a WHACK at using the time tested big screwdriver through the oil filter to get the darn thing off! Have found that the big sized rubber strap tool really grips well and rarely slips. But, now have gone the next step and only use the K&N oil filer which requires an open end box wrench to loosen. it's a great filter... does cost a bit more, but built like a tank.

cap68
I have used this oil filter and it is a good filter for removal and installation.. as for this guy's filter have you tried the tool that fits like a big socket around the filter they work very well on stubborn filters.. of course your filter maybe to damaged by now to use this method.

There are many methods to try when you end up with a filter like this ... on the engine i bought a while ago came with a filter on it and like a big dummy I didnt bother to try to take it off before i installed the engine and be damned if that filter wasnt put on by Arnold Schwarzenegger himself. I eventually got this filter off using the old screw driver method (getting about as messy as a guy can get working on a perfectly clean car). It's dirty it's messy but it works usually.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,913 Posts
If worse comes to worse, I drive a screwdriver between the filter and the adapter about a 1/4" and then pry the filter down to break the O ring's grip. I guess you risk damaging the adapter, but I never have.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,081 Posts
After some fine advice from your Team Camaro brothers...;)
Memory like an elephant, eh? :D Shoot, that cheap little tool was a life saver....and I am still thankful :).

The problem with the screw driver method is the filter housing can easily tear. If a band type filter wrench is slipping I put a strip of sand paper between the filter case and filter wrench for grip. I may distort the filter housig but they will come off.
I missed the part where the screwdriver worked for him. In my case, the screwdriver was like...step #3. And yep, it ripped all to hell. I used sand paper, screwdriver, rubber jar opener, filter wrench...all to no avail. It was truly as if someone cemented the damn thing on. Never had one quite that bad before.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,942 Posts
i wouldn't worry about the Mobil 1 causing a leak... if it's gonna leak, it's gonna leak no matter what you put in it.
i wonder if the last guy to change the oil bothered to wipe some oil on the seal before screwing the new filter on? yeah, i know, it's really hard to stick your finger in the oil filter after you fill it (you DO fill the filter before screwing it on, right???) and wipe some of it on the seal...
Guess there are times when all the wrongs happen as nova pointed out...forgot to lube the seal, waited way too long to change the oil and the worst, put it on with too much force. Actually saw a guy screwing one on with one of those round thingys that fits on to a socket wrench...I warned him, but he just said... want it on tight. So, at least once in a guy's life, there's gotta be that one tempermental filter that needs that messy scewdriver treatment.

cap68
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,172 Posts
....another member of the screwdriver thru filter club........

Messy.

Lotsa cussin' at both the filter and the schmuck who cranked it on in the first place.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top