Team Camaro Tech banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
595 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Round one

A local engine builder put my 406 together in winter '08. I paid not only for assembly but dyno tune. Before I was able to break her in there was a small stud that got past the valve and caused damage to the piston and cylinder wall. (I am very careful and don't drop things into my engine but obviosuly its his word against mine.)

Round two

He sleeved the block and rebuilt the engine (hone, all new bearings, new rings for the one new piston in the sleeved cylinder).

This engine burns so much oil it's ridiculous. It's a smokey mess. Now she's moving oil out anywhere she can - breathers, dipstick tube, etc. I haven't done a leakdown test but I'm sure it would prove there's a huge amount of blowby.

I'm gonna call or show up there tomorrow and see how the convo goes. I doubt he'll offer anything but to take it back in and try round 3 (no effing way). Anyway, if he gives me the typical [fill in the blank bullcrap] how should I handle it?
 

·
Retired
Joined
·
26,644 Posts
Since you have already paid for this mill it's in your own interest to let the shop make it right. Your other option is you bought what you got! Since what you paid for was labor and parts there is no way they will give you a refund. I'm not siding with the shop, just looking at it from a least amount of loss for both sides.

I should have asked this first but what do you have in writing? Is there a warranty on the build? It sounds like the builder is a reasonable guy, he's as sure he didn't leave a bolt in the cyl as you are you didn't drop one down the intake, he could have wrote you off the first time and didn't...

Go talk it out and go from there!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,308 Posts
I see that you have just two options, let him fix it or not. If you are convinced he's incompetent and there's no way he's touching it again then I think the conversation is a waste of time and energy on both parties. Just my .02

Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
595 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I wouldn't use a motor built by him now. I paid two times for motors that never ran long enough for me to enjoy at all.

Oh for two is enough for me.

If he doesn't offer to refund half the money I'm just gonna tell him that I'll post the story on all the local internet boards and then take him to small claims for both jobs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
First off don,t go there pissed off remain calm at all times. If you feel that he will not make it wright take it to another shop and have it taken apart. Have them verifier all measurements. Pay the second shop for their time and pick it up. If you feel you have a claim take it to small claims court have all your info ready. Under no circumstance do not bad mouth the shop or tell the other shop who built it and do not post it all over then net.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,386 Posts
Dave,
Anyone can make a mistake. I find it hard to believe that the engine ran on the dyno with a small stud in it that could fall into the cylinder, but you just never know.

As far as the oil problem goes, I think the first thing you need to do is ask him to tear it down and see what is causing it. Could be something very simple like an intake gasket. I would go there calmly and see what he says.

I am not ashamed to tell you that in 22 years of business, I have had an engine or two that needed a couple of tries to get it right. I have always fixed them with a smile. Give the guy a chance and see what he says.
 

·
Retired
Joined
·
26,644 Posts
I paid two times for motors that never ran long enough for me to enjoy at all.
In your 1st post you were not clear about it. Do I now understand correctly, you paid for an engine, it was damaged and you paid more to have it fixed and it now smokes? If so I hope you at least split the cost of round 2.

With a bolt, stud or what ever it was in the cyl, how did the valves get adjusted and the dist installed? And like Bill mentioned, how did it get through dyno time?

You never did answer the questions I asked in my first reply... What were the conditions or agreement before the build started?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
595 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Since you have already paid for this mill it's in your own interest to let the shop make it right. Your other option is you bought what you got! Since what you paid for was labor and parts there is no way they will give you a refund. I'm not siding with the shop, just looking at it from a least amount of loss for both sides.

I should have asked this first but what do you have in writing? Is there a warranty on the build? It sounds like the builder is a reasonable guy, he's as sure he didn't leave a bolt in the cyl as you are you didn't drop one down the intake, he could have wrote you off the first time and didn't...

Go talk it out and go from there!
he didn't split any costs with me the 2nd time around

all the details are in writing but no warranty
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
569 Posts
First off don,t go there pissed off remain calm at all times. If you feel that he will not make it wright take it to another shop and have it taken apart. Have them verifier all measurements. Pay the second shop for their time and pick it up. If you feel you have a claim take it to small claims court have all your info ready. Under no circumstance do not bad mouth the shop or tell the other shop who built it and do not post it all over then net.
Absolutely correct. The only thing I would add is let him know (after trying to work it out calmly) that he has left you no choice but to pay another reputable shop to tear it down and document everything for small claims court. I on the other hand I "would" warn others about this shop if it does not go your way, except you cannot "prove" it was him even if winning in small claims court so you have to use terminology that lets folks make a decision on facts alone. Words like allegedly, possibly, most likely, highly probable etc. are ones that can keep it from being messy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
595 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
He suggests I run a breather on one valve cover and an oil seperator on the other for the pcv. He says he's never built a motor that's come back with excessive oil getting past the rings. I'm also going to pull all the plugs tonight and do a compression test on all cylinders.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,628 Posts
He suggests I run a breather on one valve cover and an oil seperator on the other for the pcv. He says he's never built a motor that's come back with excessive oil getting past the rings. I'm also going to pull all the plugs tonight and do a compression test on all cylinders.
Dave do your compression test and a leak down test befor anything else. So your not running a PCV system.

You may be having the same problem im having with my PCV...

If you are running one then check to see if its sucking oil, you could also pull the carb if you dont want to run it and look down the intake runners for signs of oil. My motor is fresh BBC 498 and what i did as a test was run a clear fuel filter between the PCV hose and drove the heck out of it to find oil setting in the bottom of the filter, that would have been going in the carb and intake.

Yes it was a smoker and im still working on it as we speak but i think i got it now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
i spent a ton of cash on the 377 that i have in my '64 ChevyII... had quite a few issues with it before it was finally installed in the car.

long story, i won't get into it...

i'd say if you've lost faith in the builder to bite the bullet and find someone new to correct/fix it...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
595 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
with the pcv hooked up it, a ton of oil goes thru the intake. plugs are oily/sooty and she smokes pretty bad, especially on start up. literally has burned thru QUARTS of oil and not even a couple hundred miles.

replacing the pcv with a 2nd breather (using a grommet with a slit in the bottom that acts as a baffle because no built in baffle on these valve covers) was a disaster. oil pushing out of the dipstick tube and onto the header. also the k&n oil and motor oil spit out of the 2nd breather. a total mess.

I'm almost at my wits end.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,628 Posts
with the pcv hooked up it, a ton of oil goes threw the intake. plugs are oily/sooty and she smokes pretty bad, especially on start up. literally has burned threw QUARTS of oil and not even a couple hundred miles.

replacing the pcv with a 2nd breather (using a grommet with a slit in the bottom that acts as a baffle because no built in baffle on these valve covers) was a disaster. oil pushing out of the dipstick tube and onto the header. also the k&n oil and motor oil spit out of the 2nd breather. a total mess.

I'm almost at my wits end.
OK so its most likely oil in the intake runners that take awhile to burn off even if you pug off the PCV the oil will take time to burn off... What you can do is custom make a baffle and or use a foam in the rubber baffles to help eliminate the sucking of oil... I was note successful with that as my motor was pushing oil out of my K&N breathers and pushing the dipstick up.

So for a test just hook up your PCV with a ristricter in the line that only allows a 1/8 hole and try the foam as well. It still needs to suck enough to burn off any contaminates in the block.

But if its as bad as mine was it took the oil a long time to burn off the intake runners and i went threw 4 set of plugs befor Dennis DjD helped me figure it out and run billet breathers and then i called my builder becuase its still sucking a little oil and he said the just restrict it but to still use the PCV system.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,628 Posts
I think the motor is fine you and i just need to figure out a way to restrict the sucking of oil in to the intake...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,628 Posts
Thanks, I sure hope so.
Dave just go down to Craigen auto parts and grab 1-plastic see threw fuel filters and 1-foot of 3/8 hose, then run the hose and the 1- filters drive it for at least 1-hour to burn off oil residue on the intake runners... Trust me i did this to find out i had NO SMOKE but the fuel filter had little puddle of oil (about 1-milliliter in the bottom of it)..

Ask Dennise DjD i had a cloud over my car at a local car show.

Take it on a nice cruise and then come back pull a plug to check it.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,386 Posts
. oil pushing out of the dipstick tube and onto the header. .
Dave,
If it is pushing oil out of the dip stick tube, then something else is wrong other than your pcv valve. If you run the engine without the breathers in the valve covers, can you feel a lot of air coming out of the breather holes when you rev the engine ?? If so, it has too much blowby and something is wrong.

How far from you is the engine builder ?? Why not drive the car to him and let him take a look ? He might see something you are missing. If not, at least he will see the problem in person and help you figure out what to do about it.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top