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Discussion Starter #1
A few months ago, I had the motor out of my car because of some bearing problems that I had. I also noticed that the pilot bushing was way too big for the input shaft. I thought that I bought the wrong pilot bushing so I just replaced it. Last weekend, I noticed some noise and vibration when I pushed the clutch pedal in. The noise was intermittent (spelling?) but it started happening more and more so I pulled the tranny today. The throw out bearing felt fine, but the pilot bushing is too big again. The input shaft somehow wallered it out. What could cause this?

I am using a factory GM bellhousing, but I didn't zero it in. Could it be out far enough to cause this? If it is, should I replace the bellhousing or just zero the one that I have in?

Is there anything else that could cause this?
 

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Your bellhousing is not aligned with the crank. They do crack take a real good look at the bellhousing if it's ok align it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
OK, I just got everything completely apart. Pilot bushing is not as bad as the last one, but it has only been in there a couple of months. The previous one was in there about a year. When I put the end of the alignment tool in the pilot bushing, it wobbles quite a bit. I don't know how much is acceptable. The input shaft bearing is pretty good, I think. I have about 1/8" to 3/32" of side to side play. The transmission was rebuilt about a year and a half ago. The guy that did it was questionable, but it shifts good and it is quiet.

I didn't see any cracks in the bell housing, but I will inspect it further after I clean it up. I will also check the bellhousing alignment before I put everything back together. I will also probably go with a roller pilot bearing instead of the bushing.

Also, I have an oil leak somewhere in the rear of the motor. The area around the rear main seal is dry, the area under the rear intake gasket and underneath the valve covers on boths side are all dry, the rear oil galley plugs are also dry. Is there anywhere else that could be leaking oil? Could the tranny be leaking oil?
 

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If you are eating bushings, DO NOT use a roller bearing. If everything is not perfectly aligned, you will destroy the bearing along with the tranny input shaft.
 

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If the oil is not coming from your engine, then my guess is the trans. Based on your pilot bushing problems, I would think your input shaft bearings are shot and oil is leaking from the bearing retainer oil seal.

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If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I got a dial indicator today and my flywheel should be done tomorrow (resurface). I am going to bolt the flywheel back up and use the dial indicator to check the bellhousing alignment. If it is off as much as I think it is, it will be perfect when I get done.

As for the oil leak, I think that it is either coming from the oil pressure sending unit plumbing or the input shaft seal. I am putting all new gaskets in the Muncie while I have it out so I am going to replace the seal as well.

I am going to check the input bearing, but I think it is OK. I have 1/8"-5/32" of side to side movement when you measure at the very end of the input shaft. does this sound OK? I just felt of a fresh M22 and it had about 1/16"-3/32" of side to side movement. If I can find one around here, I may replace the bearing for peace of mind.

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69 Camaro w/400sb and Muncie four speed
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you might want to check the bearing retaining nut and the surface of the shaft cover,those are what keep the oil from running out the input shaft NO ?


also how do you aign a bell housing,I have had the same problem with my polit bearing,rebiult the trans,new clutch,trow out ,now I see the polit bearing worn out.

[This message has been edited by fastorange67 (edited 11-12-2002).]
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Fast orange

I'll check that when I disassemble the tranny.

For Bellhousing aligment procedures, check here: http://www.mrgasket.com/lakewoodmain.html then go to "Intructions" then go to Bellhousing alignment.

[This message has been edited by Cameron (edited 11-12-2002).]
 

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Cameron
I've seen an out of balance clutch disc do this. There is no way of checking the balance, but have a good look at the disc for anything odd looking. Also make sure your front bearing in the transmission is in good shape and that the bearing retainer fits reasonably snug in the bellhousing.
Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #11
How tight should the input shaft bearing be? I have 1/8"-5/32" of side to side play when measured at the very end of the shaft. Is this too much or is this acceptable?
 

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Cameron,

The input shaft play is normal. Place the driveshaft yoke in the tailhousing then check the input shaft play, it should really tighten up, when installed the pilot bushing supports the input and everything is in line.

---
Joe

edit: "In line" was a bad choice of words -- in line IF the bell housing is centered...



[This message has been edited by Turbo_Jet (edited 11-12-2002).]
 

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Cameron
As Turbo_jet says put the yolk in the back and check the input shaft. If It's too loose you will know it. There is always a little play. The front bearing retainer fits snugly in the bellhousing and centers the tranny in the bellhousing. The dowels in the block (you do have the dowels in there?) align the bellhousing to the block. I've seen guys run a scatter shield and have the alignment way off and It never opened up a pilot bushing the way you described It. Check the clutch disc.
Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I believe that the clutch disc is going to be replaced and probably the pressure plate too. The guy that resurfaced my flywheel almost has me talked into letting him build me a new clutch. He swears that he can beat the Zoom that I have now and be about even with a Centerforce for about $200. That include pressure plate disc, and throwout bearing. He seems to know what he is talking about so I may give him a try.

I am beginning to suspect the clutch disc as the primary cause of this. I have been told that it may be the culprit, by a few of you guys and also a few local guys. No one that I have talked to has seen a GM bellhousing (or any bellhousing for that matter) that was misaligned bad enough to cause pilot bushing wear that bad. If you think about it, there would have to be a severe misalignment to cause the pilot bushing to be wallered (couldn't think of a better word) out to about .100" bigger than its original inside diameter. The wear pattern on the input shaft doesn't seem to indicate a severe misalignment either. It looks like it is contacting the pilot bushing squarely. There isn't two wear marks like it was misaligned with the pilot bushing.

I tried to check bellhousing alignment tonight with no luck. It was very difficult to get the magnetic base to hold to the flywheel. After I finally got that figured out, I had no good way to turn the engine over. I tried to bump it over with the starter, but that didn't work very well, but I didn't figure it would. I am afraid to use the balancer bolt to turn the engine for fear of stripping the threads. I have already done that once.

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69 Camaro w/400sb and Muncie four speed
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MY CAR A 69 B IG BLOCK IS DOING THE SAME THING i'd be interested in knowing what the cause is. Please post it when you find it
 

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so this aignment problem would be with the block ,I didn't have any problem with the 350,when I changed to the 327 is when problem started,then I changed the cutch,then new shifter,then rebiult the trans,then went to an auto with the BB,kinda like to have the 4speed back

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Discussion Starter #17
Fastorange

An alignment problem could be a problem with the block or with the bellhousing or both. If you zero the bellhousing in, that should take care of any alignment problems with the block or the bellhousing.

I am going to try and check my bellhousing alignment again tonight. If it checks out, I am probably going to just intall a new clutch, pilot bearing, and throwout bearing and just see what happens.

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69 Camaro w/400sb and Muncie four speed
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Discussion Starter #18
I just got finished checking bellhousing alignment. It was within .002" side to side, but it was .040" off vertically. Will the offset dowels correct this much misalignment?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I'm sorry, that is actually about .020" offset. I was beginning to think about getting a new bellhousing. I found some .021" offset dowels so I guess that I will try them.

I still don't think that .020" of bellhousing offset could cause me to wear out pilot bushings that quick though. Hopefully, with all of the new parts going back in, everything will be alright.
 
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