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Discussion Starter #1
while my camaro is apart im thinking of going from a small block to a big block. i know i need the frame mounts, larger bell housing, clutch linkage change, and fan shroud if i keep belt driven fan. is there anything people forget that might not be obvious?
 

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Why BBC? Its worth noting that i ran a 468 in mine forever. But, why not LS it? Modernize, get better gas mileage, and you can still make stupid power. But back to what you were asking, What trans are you running? The obvious things, heater box has to be changed, front springs need to be changed to accommodate the added 300ish lbs. z-bar, radiator, short or long water pump, brackets are all different, mounts are different, cross member and headers can become a difficult choice as a lot say that they clear but they rub on numerous suspension parts. You will need to upgrade the radiator to cool it. Then you can run into hood clearance issues depending on what intake you run on it.
 

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I am sure you have your reasons for going BB. you know you can build/buy a SB that will put 500 ponies to the ground with the same amount of torque, and you already have most of if not all the parts
 

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Kevin, I just noticed this morning that you are from Virginia. What county or city you from? I just got out the battery charger for my video camera so I can take some pics of my car. I was going through your pics of your Firebird this morning. Nice car! My nephew has a 1972 Trans Am he is working on. He traveled to Pennsylvania to buy his car. Somebody had built a 406 Chevy engine with Nitrous system installed. He has all kinds of Pontiac parts so he decided to go back with a Pontiac 455 with around 600 hp. There is a lot of $$$ in building this one. He had Bulter Performance help him too. He ordered Edelbrock aluminum heads the way he wanted them and then sent them to Butler to improve them some more. He has been taking body parts to some guy in Fredericksburg, Va to straighten the panels and prime them. He installed a full floor himself and after finishing found out he would have to replace the trunk pan too. It's been done but wasn't done right. From what I have seen if he ever sells this car some body will be getting one better than it came from the factory. Well didn't mean to write a story (lol).
 

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Kevin, I just noticed this morning that you are from Virginia. What county or city you from? I just got out the battery charger for my video camera so I can take some pics of my car. I was going through your pics of your Firebird this morning. Nice car! My nephew has a 1972 Trans Am he is working on. He traveled to Pennsylvania to buy his car. Somebody had built a 406 Chevy engine with Nitrous system installed. He has all kinds of Pontiac parts so he decided to go back with a Pontiac 455 with around 600 hp. There is a lot of $$$ in building this one. He had Bulter Performance help him too. He ordered Edelbrock aluminum heads the way he wanted them and then sent them to Butler to improve them some more. He has been taking body parts to some guy in Fredericksburg, Va to straighten the panels and prime them. He installed a full floor himself and after finishing found out he would have to replace the trunk pan too. It's been done but wasn't done right. From what I have seen if he ever sells this car some body will be getting one better than it came from the factory. Well didn't mean to write a story (lol).

E mail sent
 

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Discussion Starter #6
well there are few. 1 i have a 454 that runs and was rebuilt. 2.there rear axle im swaping in is a 3.23 ratio so it can be very streetable. 3. it will have more torque then the small block with very little effort and will be able to pull that gear better. the motor is real mild and thats what i want. i want this build do be somewhat stock in appearance and i will dress it like a 396. i have nothing against LS motors. i am trying to use some of the things i have to keep costs in check. the trans is only a saginaw... i know they cant handle much power but since i am not going racing or intend to be crazy with the car i think it should work fine for the time being. later on i want to upgrade to a muncie. i am leaving the heater out on this build, it was rusted through and the doors were stuck i dont use the heat much as i only use them on nice days. the springs i will change anyway because the front suspension needs all new parts.
 

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Here's a good link with lots of info :

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=258554&highlight=SBC+BBC+swap

A BBC will only weigh 50 pounds more than a SBC if you use aluminum heads.

Several people have reported that the Moog 6308 springs work great on the front end. Look in the suspension "stickys."

Anyone who thinks a SBC can put out torque anywhere close to a 454 is dreamin' IMHO. The LS big inch motors are very efficient, but their appearance leaves me cold. :beers:
 

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Here's a good link with lots of info :

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=258554&highlight=SBC+BBC+swap

A BBC will only weigh 50 pounds more than a SBC if you use aluminum heads.

Several people have reported that the Moog 6308 springs work great on the front end. Look in the suspension "stickys."

Anyone who thinks a SBC can put out torque anywhere close to a 454 is dreamin' IMHO. The LS big inch motors are very efficient, but their appearance leaves me cold. :beers:
Chevrolet Performance’s most economical Big-Block crate engine delivers 500 lb-ft
my 383 has 511



531 Torque Chevy Dual Quad 383 Stroker 100% Complete Turnkey Crate Engine
 

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Chevrolet Performance’s most economical Big-Block crate engine delivers 500 lb-ft
my 383 has 511
I don't want to start a BBC vs SBC debate. It's clear that if you want to go around curves, the SBC has a weight advantage.

But the "porcupine" heads have an advantage. They flow better that a smallblock.

From Car Craft :

You've seen this story before. Both Hot Rod and Chevy High Performance have taken a whack at the "big-block versus small-block" concept a couple of times, usually with informative results.

Recently, both magazines ran a story wherein two engines were built, dyno'd, and run at the track. One was a small-block and the other a big-block, and they both displaced 408ci to take the displacement issue out of the study and simply find which engine had a better design.

Ultimately, the Rat trounced the Mouse both on the dyno (by 22 lb-ft and 41 hp) and at the strip (12.31 versus 12.59). They claimed the Rat cost about $4,500, only $850 more than the small-block (neither price included frivolities like a carb, ignition, headers, pulleys, hardware, or chemicals). It was an interesting study that made for a frenzy of bench racing.

But then it occurred to us: Who pays $4,500 to build a big-block that's only 408 cubes?

http://www.carcraft.com/projectbuild/454_long_block_engine_budget_build/#ixzz3AbdicZme
 

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I don't understand how a request for advice turns into a debate about what this guy wants to achieve. Honestly.
 

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I am sure you have your reasons for going BB. you know you can build/buy a SB that will put 500 ponies to the ground with the same amount of torque, and you already have most of if not all the parts
I don't understand how a request for advice turns into a debate about what this guy wants to achieve. Honestly.
Mr Flat Tire started the debate by claiming his 383 could put out the same torque and horsepower as a 454.

I think that's crazy and I bet most on this forum agree with me.

I'm done. To argue this further is like I'm trying to prove the earth revolves around the sun.
 

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Mr Flat Tire started the debate by claiming his 383 could put out the same torque and horsepower as a 454.

I think that's crazy and I bet most on this forum agree with me.

I'm done. To argue this further is like I'm trying to prove the earth revolves around the sun.
Really depends on what the 383 is and what the 454 is.

Personally my preference would be a small block 400 bored to 406.

Big blocks can always be built to have more power. That's just common sense but at what cost and other trade offs ?
 

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this is what you said :Anyone who thinks a SBC can put out torque anywhere close to a 454 is dreamin' IMHO.
I made a statement about my engine, but what I posted was from Gm and united racing engines . check for yourself
 

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this is what you said :Anyone who thinks a SBC can put out torque anywhere close to a 454 is dreamin' IMHO.
I made a statement about my engine, but what I posted was from Gm and united racing engines . check for yourself
So GMs most economical BBC puts out the same as your fully built 383?

Or am I missing something?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
didnt want to start any wars here! just out of what parts i had the 454 would do what i want better. i always like the factory big block cars myself even though my 68 RS isnt a factory big block car, i could make it look close to one. i do realize the potential of 383s as i have one in my 70 nova.... i could have used the 327 block for a 383 build but dont want to grind the numbers matching block. besides i would have a fair amount invested in it as well. for the camaro i want a good cruiser... a more stock type engine... the 454 is perfect for it. oval port heads low compression ratio, will run on 87 probably. with a little cam and the performer intake it should torque pretty good. as for springs i want to use the QA1 coil over conversion kit. i used this on my nova and really like it. i will probly use the 450 lbs springs. on the nova i used the 350 lbs springs but thats a 383 with aluminum heads. im not road racing or auto crossing, but would it be a good idea to up grade the anti roll bar up front with the added wieght of the 454?
 

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Also do a rear sway to compliment the front along with maybe some adjustable shocks to help fine tune your ride:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
with the QA1 set up they are adjustable in front... i am planning on QA1 stocker stars in the rear as well. i never thought of using a bar in back. would it work with traction bars?
 

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I used hotchkis front sway bar, much beefier, than the original, and used their rear leaf-springs. Funny thing over original springs, my 69, with the 468 at the time, would twist sideways with the factory rear leafs, hotchkis stuff it would stay a lot more straight. I knew i shouldn't have asked about the BBC versus sbc or LS, i was just curious as to what your intentions were. I yanked my 468 out, and its just sitting now, along with the 6.0 LS with the twin turbo setup collecting dust because i don't have the time to work on mine. But i wanna go round corners as well as go fast straight. Just looking for a better weight balance. Only reason i was asking. So you said that the BBC was already built and sitting ready? What kind of power are you looking at, any ideas? BTW, i am a gigantic fan of big blocks, as having all your torque come in way faster can make even a terribly stock BBC make people think that your car is fast. Funny thing, people come in all the time, and ask me about my engine sitting there, and i tell them its a boat anchor. To which they respond, "What it doesn't make enough power?" i always say not for me. They ask "ohh well, what does it make" I say, eh 500 ish to the wheels. Then its always "wanna sell it"?
 

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So GMs most economical BBC puts out the same as your fully built 383?

Or am I missing something?
John
what I am trying to say is what you said in your above post. it depends on the build
this comment was made: Anyone who thinks a SBC can put out torque anywhere close to a 454 is dreamin' IMHO.
I went to GM's web site and found this: Chevrolet Performance’s most economical Big-Block crate engine delivers 500 lb-ft of torque, which is a 454
I went to united racing engines site and found this:531 Torque Chevy Dual Quad 383 Stroker 100% Complete Turnkey Crate Engine
my point is a SB can produce as much torque or more than a 454
and yes my 383 was dynoed at 532 HP and 511 feet of torque
not trying to start an argument. I just pulled these statements off the net
 
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