[KevinK7]

I'm just jumping into this and have a lot of questions.

Background: I plan on installing a 2004R into my stock 327/275hp '67 Camaro (factory 3.08 rear). It appears 1st -2nd gears are closer than the 700R4, the factory PG driveshaft will work, and (I believe) a TH400 crossmember will work. I will NOT be racing the car, ...just want to improve 'cruise-ability' and get the overdrive.

My big question is with regard to the torque converter. I will be doing regular street driving/cruising (but I do want the car to 'run').
What converter to go with? lockup or non-lockup? ...and what about the stall speed?

This is what I believe I need for the conversion: (missing anything?)
-TH2004R transmission (Bowtie, TCI, ...etc. not sure yet)
- Stock PG driveshaft (I believe will work with the 2004R)
-Trans Crossmember (TH400 I believe will work, ...but are ANY mods needed to it?, ...may go for 'repro' crossmember, ...TBD)
-TV cable (with appropriate Q-Jet bracket)
-Cooler lines (from a TH350, since lines have similar location to 2004R)
-Shiftworks Kit (for factory console/shifter)
-Torque Converter (lockup vs. non-lockup?, ...stall speed?)
-Lockup wiring Kit (if using lockup conv.)
-Trans valve body (could go auto or manual, ...plan to go auto)

I have been looking at Bowtie Overdrive's site as well as TCI's site, reading as much info as I can. I believe the list above is complete, ...but please let me know if I've overlooked something. Any suggestions, comments will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Kevin

 

[BPOS]

I'm just jumping into this and have a lot of questions.

Background: I plan on installing a 2004R into my stock 327/275hp '67 Camaro (factory 3.08 rear). It appears 1st -2nd gears are closer than the 700R4, the factory PG driveshaft will work, and (I believe) a TH400 crossmember will work. I will NOT be racing the car, ...just want to improve 'cruise-ability' and get the overdrive.

My big question is with regard to the torque converter. I will be doing regular street driving/cruising (but I do want the car to 'run').
What converter to go with? lockup or non-lockup? ...and what about the stall speed?

This is what I believe I need for the conversion: (missing anything?)
-TH2004R transmission (Bowtie, TCI, ...etc. not sure yet)
- Stock PG driveshaft (I believe will work with the 2004R) Stock driveshaft and yoke will work-Trans Crossmember (TH400 I believe will work, ...but are ANY mods needed to it?, ...may go for 'repro' crossmember, ...TBD) On the T400 x-member, you need to cut off the mount pad and re-weld it to the center. As it comes, the T400 x-member has the mount pad offset to the passenger side. Only big block Camaros came with the T400, and that's the way they are. The problem with the T400 piece is that in order to drop the trans pan, the crossmember has to be removed. Not a huge issue, but a pain. I had one for awhile, the switched to the BTO crossmember. You don't have to remove it to drop the pan. Another consideration, when choosing a crossmember, is your exhaust system. One, or the other, or possibly both, might interfere with the exhaust.
-TV cable (with appropriate Q-Jet bracket) BTO TV made EZ kit is pretty darn nice, @ approx $110.
-Cooler lines (from a TH350, since lines have similar location to 2004R) Just require slight tweaking.-Shiftworks Kit (for factory console/shifter)
-Torque Converter (lockup vs. non-lockup?, ...stall speed?) For a street car, I heartily recommend lock-up. Besides the 4th gear, it's the best feature of these transmissions, in my opinion. I'd think stock stall speed would work fine with your stock engine. Mine is rated at 2200 stal and works well with a somewhat lumpy cam in a 383.
-Lockup wiring Kit (if using lockup conv.) The trans should be wired for lock-up when you buy it. You'll need the plug connector that goes into the side of the case. 12v key-on is all you need to get lock-up in 4th. Some transmissions are also wired to lock in 2nd or 3rd - this is usually done manually with a toggle switch. It's also not a bad idea to have an un-lock feature. If you run your 12v wire through a GM cruise control switch - which is a direct replacement for your current brake light switch - the converter will unlock when you hit the brakes.
-Trans valve body (could go auto or manual, ...plan to go auto) good choice for a street car

I have been looking at Bowtie Overdrive's site as well as TCI's site, reading as much info as I can. I believe the list above is complete, ...but please let me know if I've overlooked something. Any suggestions, comments will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Kevin

*

 

[mike p]

I noticed that you have a 3.08 axle gear. You might consider something like a 3.73 axle gear with the 2004R overdrive transmission (to keep highway rpms in acceptable range). Example with 26" tires, 3.08 axle and .67 overdrive ratio, you are around 1770 rpms at 65mph. With 3.73 axle you would be around 2090 rpms at 65 mph. Any 2004R or engine experts with additional advice on this?

 

[JimM]

I noticed that you have a 3.08 axle gear. You might consider something like a 3.73 axle gear with the 2004R overdrive transmission (to keep highway rpms in acceptable range). Example with 26" tires, 3.08 axle and .67 overdrive ratio, you are around 1770 rpms at 65mph. With 3.73 axle you would be around 2090 rpms at 65 mph. Any 2004R or engine experts with additional advice on this?

I think the 3.08 and .67 OD behind a stock L30 will be fine, but only time will tell. That's the combo I run, but my 383 has a lot more torque than a 327.

 

[KevinK7]

...Excellent info guys, ...this is just what I'm looking for, ...keep it coming :thumbsup: :beers:

 

[67 Plum]

Get a lockup converter.The 3.08 should be good with the 327.

 

[67FamilyFun]

1. Everything that Al said.
2. I'd add that you could probably get a junkyard transmission to live behind the 327 pretty easily...I'm not sure you need to spend the big dollars to get a 'name brand' rebuild at your power level, just get one that was designed for a V-8.
The following page is good reference material for decoding trannys.
http://members.aol.com/powerrslid/thm2004r.html
When you get into big torque is when you need a stronger aftermarket rebuild.
3. Also, you ought to add an external cooler to your list.
Scott

 

[KevinK7]

1. Everything that Al said.
2. I'd add that you could probably get a junkyard transmission to live behind the 327 pretty easily...I'm not sure you need to spend the big dollars to get a 'name brand' rebuild at your power level, just get one that was designed for a V-8.
The following page is good reference material for decoding trannys.
http://members.aol.com/powerrslid/thm2004r.html
When you get into big torque is when you need a stronger aftermarket rebuild.
3. Also, you ought to add an external cooler to your list.
Scott

Again, ...thanks for the info here guys. :thumbsup:
Scott, ...that's what I'm starting to think. The 'namebrands' are a bit more than I'm looking to spend right now, ...so I am going to look into a rebuilt one (thanks for that link).
I'm not planning on modding the engine, it's numbers matching, ...and only has 40,000 original miles. The lady (and her husband) that owned the car before me actually had the heads redone to run UNleaded, ...and I think the cam may have been changed too (nice idle). It runs perfect, ...so I'm not messing with it. Since the original PG slips, ...I figured while it was out, ...I may as well put in an OD trans and keep the original stuff 'on the shelf'.

...for anyone in the Hudson Valley NY area, ...any suggestions for transmission build/rebuild shops in our area? (I know of a couple friends have told me about, ...but it can't hurt to ask here.)

Thanks again...
Kevin

 

[jaguareats]

im in north jersey im a rebuilder if interested let me know. been rebuilding for 21 years now stock to racing transmissions, differentials and engines

 

[fmfrm250]

Hey, Kevin I just noticed why would you even need overdrive with 3.08's? If your car is nice which I am sure it is are you really going to want to take it on the freeway? I would keep your car original and cruise it that way. It is alittle work to change it to an overdrive and then you have to change it back when the time comes. I am going to put the TCI in an 87 z28 I am getting tomorrow. Since I am not selling it anymore I can tell you the real story without you feeling I am trying to sell my 2004r from TCI as opposed to a private builder. ANyway like I said in the email make sure it is built correctly. Not just anyone can build a 2004r or 700r4 correctly. These were weak transmissions in stock form even the factory V8 versions crapped out at 50k. And just because a small shop throws in a few heavy duty parts that alone doesn't fix the weak areas of these transmissions. Remember if you are having one built at a small shop they will use a junkyard core with unkown miles of wear and cracks( YES cracks in the input shaft that are to small to see, how about internal vibration, poor quality torque converters etc.) The large companies like Bowtie, TCI, B&M have specialized eqipment to check these parts and often times have all brand new input shafts etc that are forged etc. There are like 50 upgardes that need done to make one of these solid. And the local shops don't do it. Like I said before the TCI was in my GTO for 8k behind a 350 horse 400cui no problems. When I still had that car I was working on my 68 chevelle and wanted to save money so I had the local shop build me a 700r4 and place it in my 68 chevelle.I paid 1500 for th etransmission. My chevelle is a 396 with 350 hp. It seemed fine at first super smooth etc. Two weeks later it started popping out of gear and slipping. So I took it back the built it again and this time the car would have a harmonic vibration on the freeway. Needless to say all of that labor I spent in and out lost! They refunded my money thank god. It was not the quality of the TCI. So then I put a bowtie overdrive in my chevelle a 700r4 since I already had the fabbed crossmemberand driveshaft. It works really well but the step first gear in the 700r4 makes it pretty touchy to drive. Its either grandma driving or balls out! I did however step up to the stage two model for the extra Horsepower capacity and stronger internal parts. SO it does shift firm. Had I known that I would be selling my GTO a year later and the guy would have only wanted the T4oo in it I would have yanked the 2oo4r out of the GTO and put it in my chevelle. Good luck on your camaro, that is my two cents. I would stay stock. You cant ruin the tarns that is in the car anyway. If it starts slipping one day get it rebuilt for 500.00. It will still be numbers matching. STAY original and save the money. Buy your wife a tennis bracelet!!! Oh yea I will putting my numbers matching T400 back in my chevelle shortly. This is all just my own experience and not meant to upset anyone so if I offended anyone I am sorry. One more thing if your car has a powerrglide cant you just put a T350 in it? ALot less work .

 

[1stgenCR]

I noticed that you have a 3.08 axle gear. You might consider something like a 3.73 axle gear with the 2004R overdrive transmission (to keep highway rpms in acceptable range). Example with 26" tires, 3.08 axle and .67 overdrive ratio, you are around 1770 rpms at 65mph. With 3.73 axle you would be around 2090 rpms at 65 mph. Any 2004R or engine experts with additional advice on this?

1770 RPMs at 65 sounds great to me! With my 350 I currently cruise at around 1500 RPM's at 65 and love it.

Also, I agree with the recommendation to use a lock up converter. It only makes sense if you are going to get an OD for effeciency to go ahead and get the lock up too. However, I disagree with some regarding the use of a toggle switch or leaving the converted locked all the time except when applying the brakes. I recommend getting a lock up kit that uses vacum to sense engine load and automatically unlock for you when you accelerate or drive up a heavy grade. These kits also include the correct brake light switch to also unlock the converter when braking.

 

[BPOS]

Here's my take on the toggle switch annd the vacuum switch:

I have one toggle switch for 4th gear lock-up and one for 2nd and 3rd gear lock-up. (I never use the 2 and 3 lockup, but thought it would be nice if I ever were to drag race it or run it on a chassis dyno.)

The reason I put on in for 4th gear lockup is this: These things WILL shift into OD when putting around town, and it sucks. Going 25-30 MPH with a locked converter is miserable - esp with a lumpy cam. So I just turn off the lock-up and drive it around town normally. It works great.

It seems to me the vacuum switch would be the same problem - cruising around = lotsa vacuum = locked converter.

The best deal I've seem is a kit B&M makes that hooks into the speedo cable, and locks the trans at a speed that is adjustable. Only problem is the thing costs about $150. Me, being a cheap SOB, opted for the $3 toggle switch

PS I tend to agree with the poster regarding not really needing OD with a 3.08 gear. If you want to get the most out of your OD trans, put a 3.73 gear in. Compared to a T350, with a 2004r and 3.73's first gear is about the equivalent of having a 4.10 gear, and OD is like having a 2.50(ish).

 

[KevinK7]

Once again, ...thanks for all the input here, ...James as well, ...thanks for the detail you provided. It's one of those things, ...I'm not 100% sure of what I will do. Based on the input that with the 3.08 gears OD isn't going to gain me a whole lot, ...and that the car is 100% original, ...I may for now just get the PG rebuilt and put it back in.

 

[mike p]

Like others have said, a TH350 transmission is an affordable easy swap for the Powerglide, and would give better off the line acceleration for your 327/3.08 combo.

TH350 first gear 2.52 vs Powerglide 1.76.

Best wishes!

 

[kustomwerker]

2004r has a 2.67 1st(i believe), so converting to a 2004r will get you out of the hole better than a th350...i think a 2600 lock up converter will work well for your app...you will love the od regardless of what gear you have, but i`d go with a 3.73 if i had a choice...your motor will make power and torque late in the rpm band, so at 1800 in od, it`ll be piggy...especially in lock-up...but wait until you get the 2 gear downshift!!!great for the pucker factor...lol...if you want a ton of quality info on 2004r`s, go to www.turbobuick.com...those guys are doing 2004r`s in gnx`s with 800 hp...the tranny gurus there know these trannys inside out...just my 2 cents, but the slushbox is a great shelf piece...put it back in when you`re selling the car...in the meantime, you own a cool *** car to drive and show it off...not to let it sit because its too grumpy to go on a highway ride for 3 hours...bpos gave great info, and if you dont use the crossmember, bto sells them, or you can make one...i made mine in my 79...just need a welder, and some fab skills...the cooler thing is very important on any od...manual vb is for a much higher hp app, and you probably wouldnt like it on the street...besides, a good shift kit will let you shift manually anyway...a good vb like out of a gnx, or monte ss will improve shifts and longevity in these trannys...also a monte ss governor will help get the rpm shifts where you want them...hope this helps...