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Hey guys, just wanted your input on SS clones. I am looking at one now, orange with white stripes, spoiler, ss grille, ss hood, ss steering wheel, overall, pretty nice. Until I saw this one, I didn't think that I wanted a "pretend" SS, however, I am changing my mind because I really like the looks of the car. I would be happy with it and that is the most important things but I thought I would get some other opinions on SS clones. Thanks.
 

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I'm not sure how I feel about clones.I know they have the great look that we all want,and as long as the car is not misrepresented it's OK,but that's where the problem lies.I'm not implying that you would do this,but I've seen clones being passed off as originals at shows and it whisses me off!!And then there's the re-sale issue.Again,I'm not pointing a finger at you,but what about the guy you sell it to?(if you decide to sell it)What's stopping him from selling it as an original to someone who knows no better?We've batted this topic around here before so I won't continue.I guess the bottom line is,if you like the car and would be happy with it,buy it,but make sure you don't misrepresent it at any time.

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HDZ/28
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Sorry to post a duplicate, if anyone knows the names of the other discussions, please let me know and I will take a look at them.
I myself would not try to pass it off as a real SS, for one thing, I wouldn't want to sound ingnorant when all someone has to do is look at the cowl tag. Besides, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I cheated someone like that. I would just hope that a clone would be appreciated as a good looking camaro and not looked at as just an impostor. Thanks
 

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I myself own a 69 Z28 "Clone". I for one do not say it is a true Z28. I like having a clone, because I can do anything I want to it and it will increase the value instead of worrying about originality and the decrease in value if I changed an "original". Do what YOU want and enjoy.

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69 Camaro Z28 "clone" - 327 AT
"461" camel back heads,
edelbrock, hooker, ultradyne,
TRW etc.
700R4 TPI transmission
 

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TSJ69 I agree 100% I'm building a 69 396 clone.
 

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I agree with statements above too. Get whatever you are happy with. A clone is also nice in that if you decide to put aftermarket parts in, you aren't dropping the value of a matching numbers car like TJS69 said. Just don't try to dupe someone into thinking it is the real deal and I think you are ok. Cheers!
 

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My feelings are only use the SS badges if your car is built to at least SS standards. I purchased a 69 conv. that I am pretty sure was a plainjane 6 cyl. but had a 350 dropped into it along with the full complemement of SS badges. I would not feel right keeping these badges on except I am rebuilding the car to surpass even todays SS standards. This includes suspension, powerplant, and drive train. But never ever under any circumstances misrepresent what your car actually is. Just my two cents worth.

bob spears

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I personally don't think it should be done at all. Only because I see so many cars for sale that are mis-represented. Muscle cars these days seem to change hands alot and after a couple times who knows what the seller is telling people. Erik
 

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Well I have to agree with all that I have read, but here is my view. I have built many a Clone SS, Z-28 and even RS. If you take an LA built car that has no X-code then put in the correct parts ie:, casting numbers, dates, fuel lines,12 bolt, 2 piece brake lines, and the rest of the correct SS pieces down to the welded on rear frame dual exhaust mount, then what you have is a SS that did not come off the assembly line. Yet in every way it is technically correct with the exception of numbers matching vin. Is this car now any different than a "Real" SS that is being sold with out numbers matching? Don't get me wrong I NEVER state that my "Clones" are real, but I dare most to tell me they can tell different.If the car is nice and you like it, and the price is in your budget, then you are most likely to buy it whether it is real or not. right? Just my view.
 

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I can see both sides of the debate, but to me, when it comes down to it, it's your car and you can do whatever you want to it.

Isn't that what "car crafting" is all about?

Just don't falsely represent it!

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Don~ ZZ430DropTop
~~~~and~~~~
Pro-Touring.com DropTop
67 RS/SS Convertible, 70 RS/Z28
 

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If a person is going to drop some big bucks on any muscle car be it Camaro, Corvette etc. he should do his homework on what he is buying, or pay someone that knows.Personally if I was looking to buy any muscle car as an investment it better have all the documentation such as build sheet,protecto plate etc. otherwise regardless what seller says as far as I,m concerned it aint real just another clone like mine and 70% of the others out there
 

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Personally I dislike "cloning" altogether. I understand why people do it, but at some point a cloned car will be misrepresented to an unsuspecting buyer, maybe not by the person that cloned it to begin with, but down the line. I don't even now why or when the word "clone" made it okay to copy these cars. But whatever you do, buy a car that you are happy with, don't buy it because you think others will like it. I agree with Mr. C when he says 70% of the cars out there are not legit. I'd guess it's higher than that even. It's really sad when I look at lots of these cars and the owners truly believe they have an SS, RS or Z/28 and many, many of them aren't aware they were ripped off. I don't try to correct them, they're better off not hearing it from me. I prefer to look for the car that is a special car and may not be represented as one, where you've got to dig to find out just what you've got. that's rewarding to me. So follow your heart and get what you'll enjoy, just don't misrepresent it. Funny that ppeople are comfortable hearing there car called a clone, but call it illegitimate and they come unglued, to me it's the same thing.

[This message has been edited by SY1 (edited 10-30-2001).]
 

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Truthfully, if you put wings on it and called it an airplane, that's your business. Your money bought it ... you want to enjoy it ... do what you please. The controversy and frustration come into play when people intentionally misrepresent things and try to sell them at inflated prices... We all want to get "our money's worth" and we all want to get what we geniunely think we are buying. Afterwards, the vast majority of us make mechanical and cosmetic changes to our cars that make them look and perform better. It's an ego thing to say "This is MY car". Go ahead and stroke your ego ... Satifaction and peace of mind cannot be cloned ... DO what makes you feel good ...
 

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I agree that excellent points can and have been made from both sides, but in the end, the most important thing is for any potential buyer to do the research and ask the questions. I believe that in most cases, a buyer would be able to find out with 99% certainty the originality of any car just by doing the homework and extra research. I'd say if I was about to shell out 25-30K for a car, I'd do everything I could to verify the originality, not just take the seller's word.

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Dan Camm
1969 Daytona Yellow RS/SS
"Gentlemen, lets spike the punch"
 

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Well, my opinion is much the same as Bob Spears (above). It might sound quite childish to some, but is not meant to insult anyone who reads this. It is merely an opinion and nothing more. I've always felt that if someone is going to make a clone, they should do it properly. Don't have an engine in the car that would perform any less than the originals would have. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a 69 with the SS markings only to find a stock straight six or stock 307 sitting under the hood. Here's where my opinion might seem childish to some. I'm a firm believer in the Camaro name. I've always been proud of the fierce racing heritage the Camaro name has held on both the street and the track. I believe that people owning SS, Z-28,Yenko or Motion clones should understand that their cars are now representing a group of cars that were all too well known as street and strip terrors back then and even now.
I currently have a partial clone. My 69 was originally an SSRS 350cuin./300hp.. Some years ago while in the resto, a friend talked me into installing a big-block. I'm now running a fuel-injected 427. I also added the 396 emblems and the blacked out rear panel to the car for a correct appearance. I understood that my car would now represent a different class of Camaros - The Super-Sport BIG-BLOCKS. I also felt that if and when the time came to defend the Camaro and big-block name either on the street or track, I'd better have more than the looks of the car to back it up. I made sure that my engine and drivetrain matched or exceeded the standards of the 69 big-blocks back then. I actually went well beyond the standards, but that's another story.
I wouldn't give anyone the satisfaction of thinking that they just beat a real SS, Z-28,Yenko or other unless they actually earned it racing against the real thing or something very comparable.
Long Live the Camaro!!

Thanks, Paul
 

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Cloning is wrong and a waste in my book. Why duplicate something especially a Z28 like everyone does. It has ruined my view of Z28's. I walk right by them at car shows as 1/2 have an automatic in them anyway! My Buick is 100% # matching right down to the Carburetor and Distributor, I would have it NO other way. My Camaro is also # matching and correct, it is a real RS with a 327, A/C and a powerglide, it is what it is and nothing more. If I wanted something else I would have bought it. When we hotrod a Camaro or Chevelle in high school we just did it, If you want a bracket car or even a hot rod then build a regular Camaro, why call it an SS?? I dont understand! Leave the badges to the real thing and enjoy your modified car if you want to.
thx
JA

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John P. Allen
Sunnyvale Ca.
68 RS, 327 w- A/C
70 Buick GS455 Convertable
 

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John I understand where your coming from BUT when you by a car with no motor no trans your never going to have a original #s matching car,so why not build it the way you want as long as you dont try to pass it off as the real thing. OH Yea my 69 was an SS 350 Auto trans 12 bolt disc on front/now 396 4spd m20

[This message has been edited by Mr. C (edited 10-31-2001).]
 

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Just a thought I want to see how others feel about this twist. How do you feel about first gen Z/28 cars even legit cars, not clones, that no longer have the correct drivetrain in them? For me to see all these legit Z cars at shows with 350 engines in them is really a turn off. I wonder if the owner ever drove a 302 car and knows what a different car it is with the 302 in it? I could never put a 350 in a first gen Z. to me it's no longer a Z. The whole RPO and idea was built around that engine. There is just such a huge difference in driving the car with a 350 compared to a 302. It is very easy to build a 302, I don't understand why someone would not want that engine in that car. Unless it's a money thing, I understand that 350s are cheap to build and available everywhere. But isn't the rare legit car worth the special hardware?
 

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Well it looks like many sides of the clone/reproduction has been presented. I think most of mine are covered but I'll add them as well with a twist or two...

First, imatation is the sincerest form of flattery. Everything from art to the way people talk and act. Cars (Camaros) are no different. Can anyone here afford a Piacasso to hang on the wall at home? (If you said yes I want to be on your gift list! Send me an e-mail and I'll send you my address.) You don't need to in order to enjoy his art as you can get a reproduction at walmart.
Cloning an AC Cobra, (they're refered to as reproductions
) ZL-1 or Yenko, cars that all the orignals can and are accounted for falls under that same umbrella because you'll never be able to pass it off as something it isn't.

SS' and Z's are another story and though I understand what would make someone like tracyracy want to build a car that is a perfect reproduction, (it takes knowledge and skill to do it) I don't think it's the best thing for the hobby. Over time there will be other owners, storys will change and then there will be another surviving SS or Z out there and that's the honest side of it!! Let the dishonest guy get it and it will end up with doc's and tags to go with it!!


I don't have a problem with a straight 6 sporting SS or Z badging, who cares if someone else gets toasted at the track. It's not going to hurt the reputation of the "Camaro"!! It could set someone up for a real surprize when they run across a real one the next time out though!!


My recomendation! Do the look you like but make some obvious changes, My ragtop looks like an SS on the outside, has a 700r4 tranny and under the hood it has the look of a Z mill (383ci with a Z intake, a 780 holley and Z valve covers). Any true camaro buff would know in a heartbeat my car is not pedagree. I like to refer to it as "Classic-Touring", kinda on the lines of Pro-Touring but retaining the 60 series sidewalls and classic looks of the orignals.

Bottom line is to understand that reproductions are going to continue to filter there way into the mainstream and if you're looking for a correct car, you best do your homework!

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...Dennis
"The '69, the '96 & the club"
 
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