Team Camaro Tech banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have been posting occasionally about the problems I have been having with the 400hp/408tq engine I purchased from Golens Engine Service in Mass. First received the engine with a mangled oil pan (fork lift). Reimbursed me for the pan. Next, found a knock after installing the exhaust www.camaros.net/forum/Forum9/HTML/004270.html It ended up being a bad rod bearing after about 125 miles. So I sent the engine back for repair under the warranty(only covers labor). So after another $1k, I get it back and have it dyno tuned. That is where I am right now.

The engine is on the dyno stand right now and I am only getting 350hp but an impressive 410tq. It should have 401hp plus I upgraded from 1.94/1.50 to 2.02/1.60 valves, so I was expecting about 410. I have already called them twice and they are making me play phone tag between them and the dyno shop. When I first talked to them before buying the engine, they said they guaranteed HP#'s. Today, they said guaranteed to within 5-10% so I am still off 20 hp at 10% and the dyno shop said he might be able to get 2-5 more and thats about it.

I am really venting and trying to save everybody the same headache that I am having.

The engine is a 383 with 10-1 compression, Eagle Crank, Hypereutectic pistons, Eagle 5140 rods, stock Gm 75cc heads w/ 2.02/1.60Manley valves, Performer RPM type intake, 770 Holley Street Avenger Carb, Hei Distributor with MSD in cap coil, Dynomax Headers. The dyno shop is using a fairly new Superflow Dyno.

All comments and suggestions are appreciated


------------------
69 RS Camaro (383,350t,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
 

·
Gold Lifetime Member
Joined
·
10,496 Posts
I don't know how they can claim 400+ hp with stock heads; ain't gonna happen. You swap to AFR's, Twisted Wedge, Iron Eagles, etc. and I'd bet you'd pick up a bunch.

They know that VERY few people would actually dyno their engines to make sure they do what they say. The average guy would be upgrading from a stock 350 and the extra power and torque would feel better than it really is.

Let us know how they handle it. A head swap should get you where you want to be. Maybe they'd buy you the heads in exchange for having to make the engine "run the number"?

Jody
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,664 Posts
Actually it doesn't surprise me about the dyno numbers. They probabily didn't bother to resize the rods on the origonal set up. They just came up with some number in their advertising to sell products not dreaming anyone would actually put it on a dyno. Like Cody said a set of smog heads is real hard to get much HP. out of. Most of the assembly line shops are there to make money not a quality product. If you want it done right take it to a shop you know. You can argue and scream but depending on state laws I think you got screwed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,101 Posts
don't give up! If they don't do something to remedy the situation, get a nice letter on legal letterhead sent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
How about a letter to Golen's detailing the history to date and stating your desire that they make good on their advertising hp level.

I'm not sure if this would be considered blackmail but the next paragraph would detail the steps you're prepared to take should they continue to give you the run-around. Something like "I will tell my disastrous Golen's tale on every performance website I can find as well as taking out an ad in the local paper (wherever in Mass. Golen's is) stating the same." I'd also file a claim with the BBB and with the Massachusett's Attorney General for false advertising.

I'd finally state that you're not trying to get anything that wasn't promised originally from the advertising and then leave enough contact info (email, phone number, etc.) so they can respond.

Don't forget to leave a date for them to get this resolved by (say, 2 weeks) otherwise you'll initiate your plan.

Sorry for the problems you're having - Jon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
501 Posts
If what you say is true...a product didn't live up to it's advertising (misrepresentation) and/or Golens delivered defective goods, and they failed to act in in good faith, you have an easy option.

Send a 'letter of demand' (certified mail to the highest officer of Golens) stating your grievance and what remedy you feel is fair and why. Give a time frame for make-good (15 days from receipt of the certified letter would be reasonable). If after that time frame no action or unacceptable action is taken (a probability), file a plaintiff's petition in your nearest small claims court...it will cost you about $60. You can file in any court jurisdiction in which Golens conducted business,..i.e. advertised in a nationally dirtibuted magazine or an internet web page. Don't make unreasonble claims of emotional hardship etc...just state the facts and dollar amounts that can be supported. If you get crazy with your claim, the judge could dismiss the case before the trial date if the defendant (Golen's) can show the case is irrational.

Golens will be served a notice from the judge that they were named in a law suit.

A court date will be set by the judge, usually in 2-3 months.

You will probably receive nasty mail from Golen's or their representatives about counter-suits, etc., in an effort to get you drop the case. Don't drop the case...don't worry.

As the court date approaches (don't get nervous) you will get a call from Golen's or their lawyer and they will offer to settle the dispute. Now you're in control, not Golens. Agree to drop charges on the condition an agreeable settlement is executed before the trial date (never after).

Assuming Golens is still in business as the court date approaches, you will be taken care of. Even if Golens feels you don't have a case (there are two sides to every story, but it appears to me you have good case) they're not going to fool with preparing a legal defense and appearing in a courthouse down the street from you.

The sixty dollars and the hour or two you'll spend driving to a courthouse and filling out the plaintiff's petition will be well worth while IMO.

Sorry for your misfortune and good luck with this.
 

·
Retired
Joined
·
26,665 Posts
The topic had me worried! Don't be shocked if it gets changed later. Glad this isn't really bashing and I've followed your other thread with interest. This is one of those "They are within their rights" 100% of the way. They are very up front on their web site about warranty, costs and how it all works! Now don't think for a minute that I would personally buy from these guys after reviwing their website. www.GolensEngineService.com . Their terms are very up front, as I already stated... Unless you are a certified auto tech. you can't install it yourself without voiding the warranty and only parts are covered!!

As for the dyno ( www.GolensEngineService.com/engineDetail.asp?engine=4 ) numbers they got you because you're not using exactly what they used (intake, carb, headers etc.) and from looking over their site I have to ask where you got the 2.02/1.60 heads. If it wasn't from them ( www.GolensEngineService.com/options.asp?engine=4&ops=sbc ) you're giving them even more room to tell you what you have doesn't comply with their combo!!

I truly feel for you or anyone that has a bad experence with something that leaves a bad taste toward the hobby!! For wildkatz this is an expensive lesson and if anything, maybe the fact that many others can be spared from making the same mistakes is enought to defer the cost some!!

Sorry if this seems like I've over analized this but the site gets called on negative vendor postings. It's something we can't take lightly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I would like to thank everyone for your responses first and I am going to hit on each one of your guys points.

Camcojb- They haven't said anything about heads yet and said that they have actually dyno'd a couple of the same engines recently that had more power than advertised, so who knows. Thanks

Oger- They are still standing by those numbers and that there should be some more hp to be found during tuning. Thanks

boodlefoof- I am still on the phone, but tomorrow they are calling the dyno shop and going to talk one on one. Thanks

JonT- I like your idea and will save that one for the last when all other resources have failed. Thanks

Sleepy-69- Thanks your idea is going to come in handy too! So I can go to my local courthouse and file the petition in my area small claims court because their advertisements are distributed here? I won't make any unreasonable claims, I just want the #'s that I was promised. Thanks

Djd- I have appreciated your responses and help on my previous posts and thank you for not locking this one yet. As far as warranty, I paid for the mangled parts without much hassle(shipping,removal and all) and nothing was mentioned about the certified auto tech. but I have an Automotive Degree and physical restrictions prevent me from doing the job completely by myself, so I "Hired" my uncle(that has worked on cars for about 30yrs and is an auto insurance claims adjuster) to help me with the install. As for the dyno, I am using the same intake,a little better design of the same carb,and the headers on the dyno are the same that they used on theirs. Pretty much the only thing that differs from their dyno pull is the larger 2.02/1.60 heads and I am using a 770 Street Avenger Holley and they used a 3310 750 Holley. And the dyno itself is a Superflow dyno which the owner says has been right on so far. Thanks and I hope you don't think I was too defensive, I am just trying to get all the bases covered and try to get all the opinions that I can to figure out where to go next.


Thanks everyone

------------------
69 RS Camaro (383,350t,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
501 Posts
Wildkatz...yes, you can file a small claim in any court (that handles small claims) in which Golen's conducted business. So, if they marketed and delivered the product to your County/city, file anywhere in your county.

If Golens fails to appear on the court date, you will win a 'default judgement'. Golens will be penalized/fined further by the judge, for failure to appear. If you win a Default Judgemet you will also need to fill out a 'writ of execution'...meaning the judge is the steward of the award and will execute the and certify the transfer the award money from Golens to you. This scenario is very unlikely...Golen's would have no interest in going to court.

Lastly, yes, DjD is correct...make sure your claim is solid and reasonable. If so, pursue this legal remedy. I know nothing of Golen's but vendors need to called on the carpet if deception/fraud is evident or damaged goods delivered aren't replaced/fixed. Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
636 Posts
I live in mass also. Let me give you some free advice. I have read alot of the statements some good some bad. I would first try to rectify the problem with GOLENS. BE RATIONAL DONT LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU. If you dont get the satisfaction you are looking for talk to an attorney. An attorney will look at all the claims GOLENS makes and probably send out a Demand letter. LET YOUR ATTORNEY HANDLE EVERYTHING. I had a situation with a GMC TYPHOON with a dealership once. They gave me the run around about the motor until I got an attorney involved. They tried to call me I reffered them to my attorney, I told them not to call me and to talk to my attorney, if they call me again I would file a harrasment suit.They asked me to come down in person and told me that my claim ruined there GOLD STAR SERVICE RATING and that they didnt want to service me or my vehicle anymore . They said this in the presence of my wife. I filed a descriminatory suit as well. I made out very well with a check and a new motor. MY POINT IS THE CONSUMER HAS ALL THE RIGHTS IN THE WORLD DONT LET THESE PEOPLE BULL YOU INTO BELIEVING YOU DONT. BUT THE KEY IS TO BE CALM,AND DONT LOSE YOUR HEAD, LET YOUR ATTORNEY HANDLE IT AND SAY NOTHING ELSE. THATS WHAT YOU PAY THEM FOR!!!!!! GOOD LUCK!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Sleepy-69- Thanks for clearing that up. All I want from them is parts or money to make the engine have the horsepower advertised in Car Craft and promised to me.

mark67ss- I am trying everything that they have told me and they are now calling the dyno shop to see if their is anything else to do. I even have called Holley to ask about the carb. I am using because they were saying there could be a difference there. Holley said my carb should be better than the one Golen's used on their dyno runs. I am considering an attorney but would prefer to get it done on my own if at all possible. I have already been out $1k more than I wanted to because of the spun rod bearing. Thanks

Anyone else got any ideas or comments. I really appreciate it.

------------------
69 RS Camaro (383,350t,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
 

·
Retired
Joined
·
26,665 Posts
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wildkatz:
Djd- I have appreciated your responses and help on my previous posts and thank you for not locking this one yet. As far as warranty, I paid for the mangled parts without much hassle(shipping,removal and all) and nothing was mentioned about the certified auto tech. but I have an Automotive Degree and physical restrictions prevent me from doing the job completely by myself, so I "Hired" my uncle(that has worked on cars for about 30yrs and is an auto insurance claims adjuster) to help me with the install. As for the dyno, I am using the same intake,a little better design of the same carb,and the headers on the dyno are the same that they used on theirs. Pretty much the only thing that differs from their dyno pull is the larger 2.02/1.60 heads and I am using a 770 Street Avenger Holley and they used a 3310 750 Holley. And the dyno itself is a Superflow dyno which the owner says has been right on so far. Thanks and I hope you don't think I was too defensive, I am just trying to get all the bases covered and try to get all the opinions that I can to figure out where to go next.

Thanks everyone
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

wildkatz - no intention on closing as long as it stays informative and doesn't become bashing. In no way was my comment directed at your skill level. The verbage they use in their warranty is "when installed properly by a competent technician" and in a court of law you could have problems meeting that requirement if you aren't in the industry. With an Automotive Degree you should meet their requirements, at least in my eyes...
Bringing up the parts stuff also wasn't to say your choices are inferior. A 750 and 770cfm carb or 2.02/1.60 and 1.94/1.50 valves just mean "different" to the judge and could work against you in court! I don't know what the dollar limit is on small claims court. If you go that route I don't think you can be represented by a lawyer.

If you don't keep a lawyer on retainer (not many of us do) and do end up going the full court room battle, be prepared to incure the costs if you loose!! As I said before, with all the written mumbo jumbo it's easier for them to prove you defaulted on the contract than you to prove they did.

Keep us informed on your progress...


------------------
...Dennis
"The '69, the '96 & the club"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
The latest:

I went to the dyno shop this evening for a viewing of the last few pulls. Here are the totals-
Maxes (TQ)422 at 3400 rpms (HP) 352 at 5200 Averages (TQ)401 (HP)326
That is some awesome torque, but the hp is off about 49 from advertised.

I am still trying to get the shop and the dyno guy on the phone togethor, but they played phone tag today. The dyno guy said that with those tq #'s, 400hp shouldn't be a problem but the heads must be choking it down.

So that is where I am right now. I am looking at their website with the dyno graph of this engine and their tq max is about 1000rpm higher than where it occurs on mine. And their hp max is only off about 200rpm. I don't know what this means but I'm sure somebody does. Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
just a note, if you do take them to small claims court, and they do have there attorney call you, do not talk to the attorney.
In Michigan you wave your right to an attorney in small claims court, I bet its the same in your state.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
501 Posts
One last memo, then I'll shut up...If you follow the above procedure I suggested, there's a less than 5% chance the matter would end up in court before a judge. Golen's WILL settle. If it did go before a judge (very small probablility), there's a good chance Golen's would no-show, and you'd win a 'default judgement'. Should your case get heard, you have grounds, so, there's three ways you could win and receive compensation/satisfaction from Golen's.

No, you don't need a lawyer...small claims court was designed so a plaintiff could file/present a case without representation.

Step 1...send demand letter stating your grievances and a time frame within which you wish the matter remedied.

Step 2...mail letter, certified mail, to highest officer (owner) at Golens.

Step 3...after your time frame has expired, file against Golens a small claims suit in a court convenient to you.

Step 4...Expect nasty letter from Golens or their representative demanding you drop the suit or they will file a counter-suit. Ignore it.

Step 5...Expect a letter from the judge detailing the court date and further instructions from the court

Step 6...as court date nears, expect a call from Golen's asking what it'd take to get you drop the suit. Don't get sassy...just ask for what is fair...I'd add your court filing costs to the settlement, but not much above what you specified in your demand letter.

The above steps WILL yield results. Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Right now it don't look like they are wanting to do anything except leave it on the dyno and keep trying little things like changing the heat range of the plugs and stuff like that. The dyno shop says maybe 2hp left to be found, but it's just not worth it. I am getting the engine tomorrow and I am going to draft my letter this weekend to send to them.

Thanks

------------------
69 RS Camaro (383,350t,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Sleepy-69 could you please email me personally. I have a few questions I would like to ask you and would appreciate your help. Thanks

------------------
69 RS Camaro (383,350t,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
636 Posts
One more comment. Golens does have some leverage in court. They are building up a base to argue the point that they have been more than helpful in trying to rectify your situation. I am not siding with them by all means but at this point I would try to get them to keep working on your problem before going to court. From What I read I would have to agree that the heads are what is holding you back. Golens may want to consider switching to a set of VORTECH iron heads . They flow excellent perfect for your application and they run about 400 buck for the pair. They will have to get a special intake manifold to fit right but this I think will definately cure your problem and wont break there bank either. I think its a good compromise.If you decide to try it let me know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
UPDATE!!! I talked to them today and they will be flow benching some heads and will be sending me a set as early as Wednesday and they mentioned a set of Dart's. I will be trying my best for those. I am going to ask for a flow sheet and take them to the dyno guy and have him check them to make sure.

The guy I have talked to the whole time said that they were just trying to make sure that all the possible glitches were checked and didn't send out parts to everybody that said that it wasn't up to par before shipping them. He said that they stand behind their work and definitely wanted to make things right. So, things are difinitely looking better. All I want is what I payed for.

Thanks and I'll keep you posted.

------------------
69 RS Camaro (383,350t,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
THE LATEST: I talked to them today and they have a good set of 492 Fuelie castings w/ screw in studs,2.02/1.60 valves. What do you think? They are going to go thru them and flow bench them before they ship'em, if I give them the go ahead. The dyno guy said that it would be an improvement over my heads and he is going to check the flow for me when I get them. Does anybody have any flow #'s for those heads?

------------------
69 RS Camaro (383,350t,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top