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May buy this 69 camaro. The vin on the title matches the vin under the windshield. The cowl tag is gone. The owner was honest enough to inform me that he found a different vin number stamped in the cowl area ,visable when he removed the louvered panel covering the wiper arms. He said they are not on a rivited tag. They are stamped in the steel. Vin on title is 123379N6***** The car needs restoration, is nothing special (drum brakes) and is priced accordingly. I want to build it into an SS clone. Is this a 69 camaro vin? Are there usually vin numbers stamped in this area? Where else on the car can I find a vin number? (Not original trans and rear) Should this be a concern? Any and all thoughts welcome. Thanks.
 

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It's a big concern. The vin on the dash is for a 6 cylinder Camaro built sometime after mid February 1969. The partial VIN, something like 19Nxxxxxx, stamped under the cowl (and under the heater cover) is the original VIN the car left the factory with.

Only reason to swap a VIN in the dash is because the car was stolen sometime in the past. Current owner may not have anything to do with that, but he's stuck with it now.
 

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Don't buy it, its junk IMO.


TITLE 18. CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I. CRIMES
CHAPTER 113. STOLEN PROPERTY

18 USCS § 2321 (2003)

§ 2321. Trafficking in certain motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts

(a) Whoever buys, receives, possesses, or obtains control of, with intent to sell or otherwise dispose of, a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part, knowing that an identification number for such motor vehicle or part has been removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

107 A.L.R.5th 567

SUMMARY: Illegally removing or altering a vehicle identification number (VIN) or selling or possessing a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN constitutes a crime in most states. In order to impose liability, state courts normally require a culpable mental state on the part of the defendant in altering or removing a VIN or in possessing a vehicle or vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN. Some states, however, do not require any culpable mental state on the part of the defendant when selling a vehicle or vehicle part with a removed or altered VIN.

For example, in State v. Smith, 972 S.W.2d 476, 107 A.L.R.5th 791 (Mo. Ct. App. W.D. 1998), the defendant sold a vehicle that was subsequently found to have an altered VIN. The defendant claimed the state was required to establish that he had knowledge of the VIN alteration at the time the sale occurred. The court held that while knowledge was required for possessing a vehicle with an altered VIN, the statute's plain language indicated that knowledge was not required when selling a vehicle with an altered VIN.

Most state courts held that knowledge of the altered or removed VIN is required before the defendant can be convicted of altering or removing a VIN or possessing or selling a vehicle or vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN ( § 10[a] ). However, a few courts have concluded that from a plain reading of the applicable statute, knowledge of the altered or removed VIN is not required when altering or removing a VIN or possessing or selling a vehicle or vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN ( § 10 ).
BE CAREFUL, EVERYONE. WITH THE VALUE OF OUR CARS RISING, SUCH CONDUCT COULD BE CONSTRUED AS MALICIOUS AND FRAUDULENT.
 

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I'm late to this thread, but I hope the car was not purchased. The car is almost certainly stolen and re-VIN'ed. It's common to stick a VIN from a crushed or salvaged car onto a stolen one. As you can imagine, muscle cars are now being coveted by auto thieves because of the great demand and the much greater ease to counterfeit and launder the VIN on older cars. Entire theft rings are now specializing in these cars.

I'm a police officer and I just arrested a guy who was driving a '72 chevelle that was titled and registered as a '69. I immediately knew it was stolen
when I ran the plate. Upon examination of the dash VIN, it looked like a first gen camaro type VIN that had been stuck on top of the space for the original VIN, which looked like it should have had open, visible rosettes. Some goof used what looked like black seam sealer to afix it to the dash and it extruded around the sides when they pressed it onto the dash. The CONVIN which was supposed to be under the blower motor on the firewall wasn't there because the entire evaporator box had been removed and that part of the firewall cut out. They then smoothed (sort of) by covering it with sheetmetal. A VIN was lifted from the firewall near the right inner fender and returned listed as stolen in February. Drivetrain VINs often aren't reliable for the obvious reason of frequent swapping.

Further investigation revealed the car was originally (before the theft) yellow with a hardtop. It is now white with a yellow vinyl top and yellow SS stripes. It is also exceptionally clean and the paint was well executed, I must say. No corrosion at all. The interior was pimped out also. These mods were done almost immediately, I believe.

I think when a different year VIN is used, it often goes unnoticed because the vast majority of police officers, even if they ran the plate, would not know the difference between the model years. This car has been linked with a theft ring and this arrest could help collapse the ring, because someone has been caught with the car, instead of it being found unoccupied, like most are. The most satisfying part is that the guy who had his car stolen has a shot at getting it back, if he wants. Which brings me to a word of caution to the complacent: he lives in a small midwestern town where people probably don't lock doors and leave keys in the car. It can and does happen everywhere. For the aforementioned reasons, these cars are VERY theft prone. And don't kid yourselves about kill switches and the like, because if you stole cars for a living, you would get very good at knowing what the trends are in old car security, particularly if that's what you specialize in. Incidentally, these operations will scour Muscle Car Traders, etc. for cars to fill an order, and often fish for info by phone and often come to look at the car as a prospective buyer, particularly an out-of-town buyer or collector. Suffice it to say, be particularly vigilant when placing your car for sell.
Be very suspicious of suspicious-looking VIN's instead of just thinking that there's a good explanation. In the end there might be, but knowing what I know, I'm not willing to take that chance. If there are conflicting chassis and dash VIN's, assume it is stolen in the absence of state documentation allowing for a re-VIN'ed car. Good luck.
 
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