[69CamaroRacer]

IF I AM CORRECT CHEVY WAS THE FIRST TO COME UP WITH THE 302CI COMBINATION AND THEN FORD COPIED THE ci displacement. It's funny to think that ford's greatest performance engine was copied after a chevy that was a winner from day one. tell me what u think

 

[big gear head]

I'm pretty sure they both came out in '67 to compete in the Trans Am racing series.

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'69 RS/SS396 pro street
427/4spd/9"
Byars Performance
High Performance Drive Train Parts And Service
www.lubedealer.com/biggearhead

 

[HawaiianCamaro]

Cant find a ford 302 listed until 68. In 67 they had a 270 HP 289 which went to a 306 HP 320 with dual 4 barrel carbs most likely in response the CHEVY's 302

Jeff 67/68 & 69 RS's
65 442

 

[HawaiianCamaro]

sorry 320 should be 302

 

[davidpozzi]

Jeff,
Hit the icon above your post that has the pencil on it.

Then you can edit your post and fix it.
David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page
First Gen Suspension Page
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Chev 350 Can-Am Vintage Racer

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 11-11-2001).]

 

[silk]

my camaro history book states that the trans am racing series put a cap on engine displacement at 302 cid because that was the largest engine being used, which was by ford. so chevrolet engineers developed the chevy 302 using info from chevy racers that had already been building 302's from destroking their 327's. then chevrolet put them into producton to make it class leagal.

 

[SY1]

Silk's right. The ONLY reason the 302 was developed was to run a ponycar in this racing series. That's the only reason the Z/28 came to be. That's why to this day when I see a first gen Z with anything other than a 302 in it, well to me it's no longer a Z. Obviously others don't feel this way because I see so many 350s finding there way into the cars today. I'm not knocking the 350, good motor, I'm also not saying the 302 was better or even a good drag racing motor. People use them that way, but that's not what they were developed for. Just don't tell that to the guy with the 396 Camaro that Dave Strickler knocked off to win his world championship in 68!

Anyway what matters is which 302 came IN first. The answer is easy Chevy!

 

[AJBorski]

GREEN HORN ALERT
I'm confused..I thought the SCCA CI limit was 305? Just because that was the max did not mean that smaller could be run right? and I am not sure but 304 was the largest run by any auto maker (Dodge I think)??? As I said before,I am not sure,just what I understood about the subject.Am I way off?
Tony

 

[DjD]

I believe it was 305 cubes and Chevy came up with 302 without making any new parts... 327 with a 283 crank and it's time to go racing...

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...Dennis
"The '69, the '96 & the club"

 

[Broken Ride]

The max size was 5 litre, which is equal to 305 ci...

 

[Everett#2390]

And had to market, available to the public, 500 units min.



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Everett 68/350/PG/11.90/115mph

 

[big gear head]

SY1,
You are right, when you replace a 302 with anything else it is no longer a Z-28, just another Camaro with a lot of other high performance options. A Z-28 is not a car, it's a engine. RPO code Z-28 was a 290 HP 302 cubic inch small block that was originally built from a 327 block with a 283 crank. I wish Chevy had dropped the Z-28 name when the '70 Camaro came out, because they were not Z-28s any more, they were LT-1s. It's amazing how many people don't know that a Z-28 is not a car, but a engine that went out of production with the '69 body. By the way, 305 was the cubic inch limit for the Trans Am series.

[This message has been edited by big gear head (edited 11-12-2001).]

 

[DjD]

Something interesting I read the other day. It said even though the same engine went into the Camaro as the vette in '70 GM never recognized the Z/28 as equipped with the LT-1 as it did the vette.

Z-28 isn't an engine it's an RPO code, an options package much like Z-27 was the RPO for the options that make up an SS or Z-22 was for the option package that made up the ralley sport...

I understand the sentement behind the name sake but after 30+ years knowing what these cars got used for I'm glad to see any engine between the fenders of one. And I even get more excited when I find a real DZ or MO car out there...

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...Dennis
"The '69, the '96 & the club"

 

[figmandz302]

chevy would be 1st,cuda had the 273 v-8 at the time,and the mustang,s competitive engine was the 289.vince piggins orignal proposal was for a high performance 283 because they had built that engine before.he took chevys new general mngr elliot m estes out for a ride in a prototype z-28 that was built to piggins initial specifications.after some full throttle acceleration runs and a few dives through a slalom course,piggins let estes take the wheel.he was quite impressed with the 283.piggins suggested that it might be a lot better to take the 327 block and put the 283 crank into it,giving it a 4x3 bore and stroke.that would put displacement at 302.4-cid,just under the scca,s 305 limit.pete estes immediately agreed.estes got with engineers alex mair and don mcpherson and said; let,s release this package and develop a 302 engine to go with it.

[This message has been edited by figmandz302 (edited 11-12-2001).]

 

[N8Miller]

but ya know what------when you think of 302s, what comes to mind? chevy, no----Ford yes. so does it matter who came out with what when, no, the Stangs have the title of the 302 and everyone knows that the when you hear a 302 mentioned in a conversation----you immediately think of Mustangs.

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my cousin has a --- 86 IROC with a 350 crate motor,3.73s, flowmaster, T-tops, shift kit, Holly 650 carb., automatic, 94 Trans Am seats--- i just do the research for him.

 

[DjD]

N8 - it just depends on which side of the fence your on!! I have a ford f150 with a 302 in it and when 302 comes up in the conversation I instantly think Z/28's, MO and DZ coded engines... Not to put down the Boss 302 or any ford but chevy guys will always identify with Chevy first...

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...Dennis
"The '69, the '96 & the club"

 

[Joe Harrison]

Not sure but I think the SCCA cube limit went up in 1970 to 360 CID. I could be wrong on the size but I think they did increase it. The 70 Camaros ran the LT1's that year I think??? Speaking of Camaro's and what is thought about when engine size is brought up. I can't even begine to think how many times I have heard of people selling or buying or know a person with an SS Camaro that has a 327 in it from the factory. Make me laugh everytime I hear it.

 

[figmandz302]

the z-28,s won the trans-am championship in 68 and 69, and not to put down ford either but the z,s consistently came in ahead of mustangs on the track.

 

[SY1]

A couple thoughts of mine. First I'm glad someone shares my sentiment regarding Z28s without the 302 in them. I know it was a RPO. But what we're trying to say is the whole reason for the car being built was SCCA. The only reason the 302 came to be was to run that race and the Camaro body was the prefered body to put it in. The whole RPO was designed around that 302 being the core of the package. So to me it's sad to see all the 350s in them today. The cars whole heritage is gone and to me, (not lots of other people I understand) it's just not a Z28 anymore until another 302 rests between the frame rails. The car was meant to wind high for long periods of time. If I want cubic inches I'll take mine with a big block thank you. I'm not saying the 350 transplant cars aren't still nice cars, but if the guys had a chance to drive the 302 and drive it hard, man there is nothing like it. The 68 and 69 Z's I've owned I'd run up to 8,000 and beyond every chance I got and never hurt one. One time a valve did stick, but after the pushrod and rocker broke nothing else was damaged. I can't say the same for the 350's Ive run. Good running 350s, L82s, LT1s. Blown lots of rods at rpm ranges way below that.

I agree in the chevy circle mention 302 and Z28 comes to mind. But if I had a nickel for every parts counter person I've had to argue with to get my 302 CHEVY parts when they're telling me I've got a Ford motor in my car, I'd have.......well over 4 bucks!

 

[SY1]

One more thing I forgot. Figman is right 68 & 69 the 302 ruled SCCA. But Penske and Donahue left and look what happened.

Big Gear Head, looks like it might be me and you against the world on the 302 engines missing from the Z body thing. I get sentimental about the motor, but for good reason. I respect the big blocks and it's by those motors that I base my performance expectations. I've beaten more big blocks with 302's than with any other small block I've run. I've lost to more than my share as well, but I'd expect to going up against the big block. It's just nice to come out on top once in a while and you're sitting there with 150 less cubes than the other guy.