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Discussion Starter #1
Way back when I took this car apart, I labeled most everything and put them in ziploc bags as is the custom. Well, I'm about to put the door handles and window cranks back on, and lo and behold, I find 2 large springs in the bag I have the old window cranks. I can't find any reference to springs behind the cranks or door handles. Are they supposed to be used behind the cranks or door handles? BTW it's a standard interior 67 coupe.
 

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They go BEHIND the door panel for the window crank. The narrow end towards the door.
 

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According to D&R catalog (not a definitive source) the springs were used on the back window cranks on 67's.

I bought a pair, for my 69. Are they correct for all 1st gen?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You may be right, that they are used on the door window crank, since that is how I labeled the bag, but why isn't there any reference to these things in the Fisher body manual or anyother manual for that matter? Besides that, wouldn't you think that if it worked for the door window cranks, it would have been applied to the rear window cranks as well?
 

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Never have seen an older car with crank windows that didn't have a plastic washer and a cone shaped spring behind the crank handle... That goes for front and rear. Mine were misplaced and when I needed 4 springs I went to GM Sport Salvage I got 4 used replacements off of 3 different GM cars.

Without the spring the washer and handle would trash the door panel in short time...

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...Dennis
"The '69, the '96 & the club"
 

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Discussion Starter #8
We seem to have conflicting information here. What order and where do these things go? Behind the door panel? and does it stick thru the hole in the panel, or does it go like this; door panel, washer, spring and finaly the handle?
 

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If I understand correctly, it's:
1. Spring (big end facing toward interior)
2. Door Panel
3. Plastic Washer Plate
4. Window Crank.

Other conflicting information......D&R says rear panel, Rick's says door panel, DJD says both.
Can we get a tie breaker?
 

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My car had practically the entire original interior in it when I bought it 13 years ago. I replaced the original rear panels 8 or 9 years ago and there were no springs on the rear window cranks.

My front panels were assembled as follows: First, a round foam seal approx 1/4 inch thick x approx 1 1/2 inches in diameter was installed over the crank stud. It appears to seal the opening in the door panel. Next was the door panel, then spring, then plastic washer, and handle. I remember the springs falling off when I removed the crank handles. Of course, someone could have removed the panels at some point in the car's life and reassembled them incorrectly.

A point to note, the spring will not fit very well behind a PUI repro panel because the crank hole is not in the correct location. I needed to trim about 1/2 of an inch of cardboard to get the drivers side to fit. The spring would have not pressed against the door panel for about 1/3 of its circumference.

I replaced a 10 year old pair of repro panels with a new set of repro panels recently and the 10 year old pair was much better made than the new ones. They are really trying to cut corners on the new stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Trying to use some logic here would tell me Unreal's explanation makes the most sense. The spring is behind the door panel, out of sight, and will not cause any disfiguration of the finished door panel. The spring puts pressure against the door panel. The washer protects the door panel from rubbing by the door handle. Whereas in Gheatly's reply, he mentions the spring being between the plastic washer and door panel. In that event, I would think the spring could turn and wear against the door panel.(unless of course the spring fits thru the hole in the door panel). Gheatly, I don't think you meant you enlarged the hole in the door panel did you? I just don't want the cranks or door handles to rattle, look loose or wear against the door panel in any way. What do you guys think?
 

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When I hunted down my springs I pulled 2 of them off rear windows. The way they go is door or rear interior panel goes on then the spring with the small end going against the the regulator (hole in door panel should be just large enough for the small end of the spring to go through. Then the big plastic washer (big end of spring fits washer real well) and then the window crank. The spring is to keep the crank from rubbing to hard on the panel. There is no other reason for it that I can think of. I can't imagine it was designed to go between the panel and door itself!

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...Dennis
"The '69, the '96 & the club"
 

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Unreal has it right; I’ve pulled many door panels off original cars. It appeared to me the reason for the spring behind the panel was to hold the panel against the plastic washer to eliminate any gap between the panel and crank handle. Without the spring, the panel tends to bow inward after time and weather. At least that’s what happened when I left the water shield and springs off before….
I don’t recall seeing the springs on the rear panels, at least not on a coupe..

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Geezer

[This message has been edited by Geezer (edited 09-17-2002).]
 

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Unreal and Geezer have hit the nail on the head. I have been working on Camaros, Chevelles and Novas for more than 30 years. The purpose of the spring is to push the door panel toward the crank handle. The plastic washer goes between the handle and the door panel to prevent wear. There are two reasons a spring might be on the outside of the panel. 1. Someone reassembled it wrong. 2. The washer was either left off or broke and the spring wore it's way through the panel over time. The foam washer on the regulator was there to prevent squeaks. So, the correct sequence is as previously stated, foam washer, spring, door panel, plastic washer and then window crank. There were no springs on the rear door panels of first gen Camaros because the panel was small enough that there was no concern with warpage. Unless you are doing a concours resto, you can put them on the rear if you like. Good Luck

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69 SS, 350, 4 Speed
75 400, 4 Speed
93 Z28, 6 Speed
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks to everyone that responded. I didn't think something so "simple" would generate so much discussion, but I'm glad to find out exactly how it should be done.
 

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67killerb, yes I did have to enlarge the hole in the door panel. Overall, the holes in this new set of panels were very poorly placed.
 

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I must concede that I'm recalling circular marks on the back side of a door panel recently. Not sure why I installed them the way I did. Guess taking them off a car that they were that way planted the seed... Good to get little details straightened out!!

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...Dennis
"The '69, the '96 & the club"
 

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Looking at the "Body by Fisher 1968 Service Manual".

Page 6-42 shows the explosion of the door/window assembly: crank, spacer and spring. I haven't located anything that mentions the placement of the panel in all this.

Page 7-13 shows the explosion of the rear window assembly: crank, spacer and NO spring.


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David
Camaro - '68 327 Coupe, '86 Z-28 IROC 305 TPI
Corvette - '73 Mako Shark II, '82 Cross-fire, '01 Coupe

[This message has been edited by djunod (edited 09-18-2002).]
 

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there is a nice assembly diagram for the window cranks on Rick's Camaros website under the retaining clip, spring does go under the door panel
 
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