Team Camaro Tech banner

1 - 20 of 49 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My 67 Camaro is acting weird. It doesn’t turn over (engage) after I stop upon driving it a bit. It is likely a “heat” thing. I turn the key and I hear nothing. I think I hear a relay, but otherwise it doesn’t engage and turn over. After I let it cool down, it then turns over and starts. After it started, I drove it home and turned it off. I tried to start it and it worked. I turned it off and tried again, and it didn't work. Strangely intermittent. You think it’s a relay and where is it? It's only happened twice, but I don't want to be stranded somewhere. Pretty much everything is new. The battery is in great shape and the wires are clean and tight. I have made no changes or had any repairs that would have caused this. That's why I think it's electrical and perhaps a relay. There is no clicking or anything. I wouldn't think it was the starter's solenoid. I dunno. Thanks!
 

·
Admin/Super Moderator
Joined
·
12,511 Posts
I could be a few things. Are you using factory style points ignition and coil? The coil and or resistance wire could be the source of your trouble. Could be the main battery connections, clean and reattach and test. Could be starter heat soak or loose connections.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
check your wiring through your nuetral safety switch also if the switch is bad or wire connections loose this could be a problem with no crank
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,556 Posts
It sounds like the neutral safety switch. Remove it and see if the car starts, etc. If this eliminates the problem you can drive car without the switch or replace it. Up to you.

Other options.

When it happens again, keep car in park and push the car forward from the rear a few times. This will rotate the flywheel and hopefully get it to mesh with starter gears.

Starter could be getting hot.

Check your ground cable from the bock to the frame.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks, all. It's not the neutral safety switch. I bypassed it and the car still wouldn't start. Also, the switch is new. That failed a year ago. :) I still bypassed it just in case. It still didn't start. I know I bypassed it right, because I did it before when the switch failed. I also confirmed that I bypassed it correctly when the car cooled off. I did it and it started. I figured if it was the starter, I would hear something. I hear nothing. Nothing happens but maybe a slight click that resembles a relay activating. I also have aftermarket coil and cap (MDS). It just seems like there is no power when I turn the switch, but the battery is fully charged. I will definitely check for loose wires, just in case. Is there a way to test the solenoid or starter for heat failure? Can a shop do that?
Thanks!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,533 Posts
DeAngelo - where have you been?
Couple things could be happening when you hear the 'click'
The solenoid does two things- 1) engage the starter pinion into the flywheel ring gear, then 2) completes the power path to the motor.
What may have happened is the solenoid needs replaced or the plastic cover comes off and rotate the two copper bolts 180° and rotate the disc 90° so there is new contact surface.
Battery cable gauge size - min 1 AWG with clean connections, both terminals and the surface they touch. Toos mall of cable gauge less available power to motor.

Every time these items come close together, there is an arc and arcs produce over time high resistance - less power goes through the contact patch. by rotating or replacing the solenoid, new contact patch(es).

I was just thinking here - see the smoke? - when my '68 would do this at the track, I installed a marine push button start switch across the solenoid directly - BATT to S terminal - and I always had start function. Might consider this as I had a switch in eng compartment for adjusting valves.

Brownings Alternator repair on Independence Blvd is the place for starters.
If he recommends a new one, have him swap your nose piece onto the new starter.
He will change the bushing while you wait.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks, Everett! I don't hear the click in the vicinity of the solenoid. I could be wrong. I know that it is not engaging, though. I will check the gage of the wire. Good point. I may just replace the solenoid to eliminate that as a possible point of failure. Keep you posted! Thanks! DeAngelo
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,533 Posts
One cannot discount others' suggestions of the neutral safety switch and other power transfer devices.
You may want to take a look at the neutral safety switch ensuring it is in the middle of its stroke for full face-to-face contact when in Park/Neutral. If the switch is half connected, then it has 1/2 half surface contact transferring power - not a good thing.

Heat is the worst enemy for transferring current. As temperature rises, so does the resistance value of every item in the circuit. More heat, more resistance to current flow, less power delivered at the other end of the circuit.

As far as the relay click, it could be any circuit. Interior click or outside click?
Could be a power source for an accessory - relay energized in IGN and not in START position and this would be the relay click going through the ign switch positions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
Its probably the starter/selenoid but to know for sure you've got to make sure you are getting 12volts from the key at the selenoid when its in the no start hot mode. A little tricky to test in the parking lot or somebodys driveway but it can be done if you are prepared. If there is signal voltage from the key at the selenoid then its got to be the starter/selenoid assy. Looks like a reman starter from AutoZone can be had for 30-50 bucks. For 30 bucks I might just replace it and be done with it. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thanks again, Everett. I know it's not the neutral safety switch because I bypassed it and still had the issue. When cold, I bypassed it and it worked. And it sounded like an inside click. I am going to do what Jeff recommends and that is to replace the starter and solenoid. It's a cheap fix and helps to eliminate a point of failure. Keep you posted!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
If its a heat related problem its most likely the starter/solenoid. A fairly cheap fix unless youve got a numbers matching starter or high torque aftermarket one. What we used to do in these situations is bang on it with a hammer when it wouldnt start. If that woke it up then it was definitely the starter. Sounds a bit caveman but it worked. Do you have headers?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
If its a heat related problem its most likely the starter/solenoid. A fairly cheap fix unless youve got a numbers matching starter or high torque aftermarket one. What we used to do in these situations is bang on it with a hammer when it wouldnt start. If that woke it up then it was definitely the starter. Sounds a bit caveman but it worked. Do you have headers?
Thanks! Yes, I have headers and it isn't a matching numbers starter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
653 Posts
My bet is poor connections. A voltmeter, some measurements and better description would help.
All the solenoid does is switch the starter. Heat issues related to slow cranking are one thing. No cranking is another.
But troubleshooting is a lost art. Shotgun it.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,354 Posts
bad ignition switch?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,241 Posts
Hopefully you have an assistant because this will take two people.
I suspect the solenoid. If it were the starter itself, you would hear a loud click (i.e. the solenoid engaging), not the faint click you are describing.

When it is nice and cool, run a second wire to the start lug on the starter, with the other end of the wire temporarily secured by electrical tape or zip tie so that it won't touch ground. Make sure to strap the temp wire in a couple places on your wire harness so it doesn't fall over and burn through on the header. You get it I am sure.

Drive it til it is good and hot (well, you know this part of the drill... simply replicate what is causing the no start). Have your assistant turn the key to the start position while you put a test light on the temp wire. Light up? Still no start? Bad solenoid.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,241 Posts
It sounds like the neutral safety switch. Remove it and see if the car starts, etc. If this eliminates the problem you can drive car without the switch or replace it. Up to you.

Other options.

When it happens again, keep car in park and push the car forward from the rear a few times. This will rotate the flywheel and hopefully get it to mesh with starter gears.

Starter could be getting hot.

Check your ground cable from the bock to the frame.
Not trying to be an arse here, Ty, but I have never seen an auto trans in park turn the flywheel by pushing the car. All you will do is either break the parking pawl, or skid the rear tires, or a combination of both.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,194 Posts
You absolutely sure that the battery is holding a charge?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,515 Posts
Get it hot to the point where it won't turn over with the key. Put a volt meter on the "S" terminal and measure the voltage while cranking the key. If you're getting batt voltage there or close to it then the solenoid is likely the culprit.

If you get significantly less than batt voltage, jump across the positive batt cable stud and the "S" terminal on the solenoid. You can use a screwdriver if you're careful not to touch it to any ground. A safer bet is to use a remote start button. If it cranks - which it probably will, then the solenoid is fine.

At that point, the most likely culprit is the ignition switch which can't pass the required current to engage the hot solenoid. The ign switch arcs slightly every time you start the car. Over time the contacts pit and corrode and eventually can't pas the increased current demand when it's hot. You can test by jumpering across the switch - big red to purple/white.


You might also clean the connection at the junction block in front of the battery on the core support as well as both connections on the horn relay bus.

Or you can just throw parts at it and hope you get it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
685 Posts
Get it hot to the point where it won't turn over with the key. Put a volt meter on the "S" terminal and measure the voltage while cranking the key. If you're getting batt voltage there or close to it then the solenoid is likely the culprit.

If you get significantly less than batt voltage, jump across the positive batt cable stud and the "S" terminal on the solenoid. You can use a screwdriver if you're careful not to touch it to any ground. A safer bet is to use a remote start button. If it cranks - which it probably will, then the solenoid is fine.

At that point, the most likely culprit is the ignition switch which can't pass the required current to engage the hot solenoid. The ign switch arcs slightly every time you start the car. Over time the contacts pit and corrode and eventually can't pas the increased current demand when it's hot. You can test by jumpering across the switch - big red to purple/white.


You might also clean the connection at the junction block in front of the battery on the core support as well as both connections on the horn relay bus.

Or you can just throw parts at it and hope you get it.
X2. Good advice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Great ideas! Thanks! And yes, the battery is def holding a charge. When I turn the key, nothing happens when it's been driven awhile. After I got home from driving Sunday, I turned it off and immediately tried to restart it 6 times. 3 times nothing happened. 3 times it engaged and turned over. Very erratic. Earlier that day, I drove it 20 miles and when I got to my destination, I tried to restart it after it was off for an hour and it did nothing. No loud clicking like an engaging solenoid. Utter silence other than the quiet sound of a relay click maybe. Definitely not the sound of a solenoid engaging the starter. I turned the switch 30 times I'm sure. Nothing. Suddenly, when I tried the 31st time, it turned over. I guess it's either the solenoid or the ignition switch. I was just going to replace the starter and solenoid because it's so cheap. If I still have the problem, I should replace the ignition switch. I need to try the great ideas above as well.
 
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
Top