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Discussion Starter #1
I am hoping you guys can help figure out this dilema. My brother purchased a 69 Z/28 a few months ago. It has all the Z/28 markings. 4 leaf suspension, dual hanger exhaust, disc brakes, close ratio manual steering etc. It has original Lemans blue all over it. As you can see in the pictures it is a rusty rolling shell but the vin 9N5763XX matches the two hidden vins. The cowl tag seems correct in every way except the build date seems to be about 3 weeks after the vin. Can you tell if it looks like an original cowl tag or one that has been added or faked? It just seems strange that the color is correct and that someone would go to so much trouble to add this cowl tag on such a rusty, stripped project. He had the guy paint the cowl tag area before he purchased it to help see the x code better since he was buying it by photo only. It does not have the correct rear and of course motor and tranny are long gone. What do you think? Thanks!

photo.jpg
 

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02B is too early for D80, and VIN is earlier than February.
 

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Not just a swap. That is a fake tag. It isn't just maybe a fake tag. It IS a fake tag.
Period. If it used to be a GM tag, someone removed it and stamped the D80 in from the back.

You said: "It just seems strange that the color is correct and that someone would go to so much trouble to add this cowl tag on such a rusty, stripped project."

Why? Because even as a project, it will bring a higher price than a non z. Just that simple. For money. I see you are in Kansas. Your brother didn't happen to purchase from a seller in Oklahoma did he? It is illegal to swap the tag in Oklahoma.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
No I think he purchased it from a guy in Tennesse. He is feeling pretty duped obviously. He knows better to check the vin to cowl date and thought he did but evidently not. I suppose you are right about the reason for the swap, dang crooks. I feel pretty sure it was a real Z at one time but it doesn't matter now with the original cowl tag gone. He was taken. Lesson learned for him. He will part the car out now Im sure.
 

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For future searches:

ST69 12437 NOR264784 BDY
TR 713 71 71 PNT
02B X33D80

Len, what's the full VIN? I'll take a look in the database and see if we have anything on the car.

Ed
 

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No I think he purchased it from a guy in Tennesse. He is feeling pretty duped obviously. He knows better to check the vin to cowl date and thought he did but evidently not. I suppose you are right about the reason for the swap, dang crooks. I feel pretty sure it was a real Z at one time but it doesn't matter now with the original cowl tag gone. He was taken. Lesson learned for him. He will part the car out now Im sure.
I hate what this is doing to what should be a really nice hobby. Amazing. GM sold about 20,000 Z's in 69 and now there are 40,000 running around. Half the Z's I see on ebay are fake cars, almost always stating they are the "real deal".

It is nothing short of thievery. While the simple act of swapping a tag is not in itself illegal except in Oklahoma, it is illegal in all 50 states to obtain money by false pretenses. It is just as illegal as if he had someone copy a Renoir painting and then sold it as an original. Although your brother won't get his money back, he should send a letter demanding a full refund including whatever he paid to have it shipped. Has your brother saved all the communication regarding the sale?

Advise the seller that the tag has been swapped. Ask the seller point blank if he is the one who swapped it. If he denies swapping it, demand to know who he purchased the car from and when. You want names. If he won't give you any information, then you need to publish the seller's name here on the board. You can publish just the facts. If you don't know he is the one who swapped it, you can't accuse him of that, but you can sure state the mane of the seller.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ed, I will PM you the full vin. Please let me know if you find anything. Thanks!

Lynn, I just talked to my brother and he did email the guy today and has not received an answer yet. He is going to give him an opportunity to make it right but if the guy doesn't he will give me his name to post on here. My brother says he sells cars on a regular basis and needs to be exposed if he doesn't cooperate. Thany you also!
 

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Maybe it is just the picture quality, but I cannot see the Muncie speedo cable and clip locations needed on the firewall shot. Also no stripe color (white) overspray/spray through on top of cowl, but that could be result of a repaint at some point.
 

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My car is a 05A car with the white paint on the cowl and no D80 . If the car was built before mine it should have those same no D80 and white paint , cowl does'nt look like it has overspray inside like it should for stripe color. If the car came with black stripes would the top of the cowl be black? it does look like two different colors of blue on the firewall.
 

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My 2 cents for what it's worth.

I do not condone tag swap yet I don't fully see an issue if repo tags are used for reasons other then deceit.

A buddy of mine bought a fully restored car that was missing the OEM Cowl tag.

In order to complete the restoration he had a tag made. Just a regular X11 tag with paint and trim to match his colors.

Now how is this different then using say repo glass that you order with the date code you want or other part not original to the car but "date coded correct" for your build? I mean isn't that all fake too? O

Then the whole #s match v. born with debate? Or rebodies with correct VIN and tags?

It's way too convoluted for me.

Although compared to the NCRS Vette Guys (Holy Cow what a circus that is) these debates are tame.

Igot crap for my Black (original green) and added sidepipes 65 Coupe. All rest #s match but I don't like green and I wanted sidepipes. Lol
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for checking Ed! And I appreciate everyones input on this car. Learning lots here but hope my brother has learned even more. I always new I was the smarter brother. Hope he doesn't get on here to read :)
 

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John, using replacement glass in a first gen and swapping tags are wholly differant. When you swap the TT you are changing the essence of the vehical. Same as the car started life for example as a monkey and is transposed by someone to appear as a lion. (sorry best example I could come up with) Replacing the glass is still only looked upon as a maintainance procedure.
 

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John, using replacement glass in a first gen and swapping tags are wholly differant. When you swap the TT you are changing the essence of the vehical. Same as the car started life for example as a monkey and is transposed by someone to appear as a lion. (sorry best example I could come up with) Replacing the glass is still only looked upon as a maintainance procedure.
I already said I don't condone swapping to make it look like it was something it isn't.

So if changing glass is "maintenance" then why fake it by paying for a fake date code?
 
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