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MARTINSR

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Well, the 2K Rubberseal aerosol can testing continues. Today it’s the 2K filler primer part number RS-586. I have to say, I am really impressed by these products so far. I posted a while ago reporting the results of the 2K epoxy primer RS-587 finding it totally insoluble to lacquer thinner and urethane reducer. I did a very aggressive rub test and they didn’t even touch that epoxy primer.
This primer didn’t hold up as well to the thinner rub test. But it does take a pretty good rubbing to get a little color on the rag. It still held up darn good. It is an “iso-free” filler primer similar to PPG’s NCP primers and even smells like it when sanded.

The amazing thing was the filling and sanding qualities. I did a repair in polyester putty on a Toyota Camry fender. I finished off the filler in180 grit as I usually do. But I didn’t think that was enough of a challenge for that primer and half of the filler I finished blocking it with nice sharp 80 grit.

I applied it as per the instructions on the can with 5 coats with a flash of 3-5 minutes. Now, it was darn hot at about 90 degrees out so it flashed pretty fast. I added another coat over the area of the filler that was sanded with 80grit. I thought for sure that this little aerosol can wasn’t going to fill that 80 grit at all let alone with only 5 coats knowing how aerosol cans cover like crap.

Well, how about 1 coat made 1 mil! So at the 6 coats I had 6 mils! The one can covered this area with 5-6 coats no problem and I had a lot left so I made another test panel stripped to bare metal and just kept applying coats……13 of them. The can was still spraying good at 5 hours after busting the hardener container in the can. It did have kind of a “chunky” effect near the end. The first coats on the fender, that sucker sprayed like a little touch up gun, very nice with no splattering.

So, on this test panel, how about 15 mils!

I blocked the fender with 320 and then sanded it with 600 and then prepped the fender for a blend. The 6 coats filled those 80 grit scratches no sweat! I blocked and sanded very aggressively without sanding thru!

Coming up next….how about the paint being applied with a “Pre-val” aerosol system and then the RS-588 urethane clear aerosol can! Yep, I am doing this whole job in 2K products and no spray gun or compressor. I’ll report on that later.

Brian

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The best test is that of time....4 or 5 good summer sun, then see how it holds up
I am guessing you are talking about the clear coat? The rest of the stuff should not be a problem after 5 summers.

I am going to call this company today. To me this is one of the most exciting things I have read all year. I was curious if Martin has used the Clear Coat at all yet and if it had been on a car for a year yet? I am more curious about it being on the top of the car where the sun hits it?
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
I am guessing you are talking about the clear coat? The rest of the stuff should not be a problem after 5 summers.

I am going to call this company today. To me this is one of the most exciting things I have read all year. I was curious if Martin has used the Clear Coat at all yet and if it had been on a car for a year yet? I am more curious about it being on the top of the car where the sun hits it?
I will be doing the paint and clear coat today hopefully. I have not used it yet. Did you see the report on the epoxy primer? http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=139538

I will post with a report after I do the complete aerosol repair on this fender. After that it will be put on in my back yard for weather testing. :)

I did a cross hatch scratch on that test panel with the 15 mils on it and put it out in the back yard. Here is the kicker, I did this cross hatch scratch with my pocket knife. I locking blade buck, pretty sharp point hefty knife. I did a very aggressive scratch because I want that shiny bare metal there in the scratch. I was blown away when I saw that I didn't even come close to getting thru the stuff! I scratched a very deep scratch but didn't even come close to getting thru! It took THREE more extremely aggressive attempts to get thru to the bare metal. And it didn't chip off, it didn't even chip off the paint that I applied it over where I hadn't even sanded it! I stripped this chunk of a door skin to bare metal with 80 grit with my killer. I didn't feather it out, I only cut the paint off. I then applied my 13 coats over the bare metal and up onto the paint, that was unsanded. The stuff feathered beautifully when I blocked it FILLING that 80 grit feather with ease (of course there was 13 mils!). And even with the knife it didn't come off the unsanded paint! Wild stuff so far.

Brian
 
I am guessing you are talking about the clear coat?
No the whole system
Paint jobs screw up more ways than from just the top coat...it is more common for cracking deteriation to take place from the bottom up, not top down.
 
Really??
I don't think he is talking about painting the whole car out of the can??
I have used cheap paints/primers out of a can, good paints/primer out of a can, good paints/primer sprayed out of a compressor and have never had my primer fail. Am I just lucky, or is there a lot of failure of primer?
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
I don't know where this is going. :) I am not talking about spraying cars complete with aerosol can for goodness sakes. These cans are a solution for a number of projects, but certainly not doing a complete! First off, it would cost a lot more money to use them! No, they are limited to small repairs or projects. I am going to spot this one little Toyota fender and clear it just to make a point (or maybe I won't and it will be a miserable failure, I don't know).

But failures can begin with any part of the system. The primers are a common start because they are many times applied with less care. They are piled on thick (like my secont test panel in this case) and not allowed to flash properly. People ask them to do way more than they are designed to. They ask the primer to fill pin holes, waves in poor body work, deep sand scratches, etc.

They are often applied so heavy that they are full of solvents and never flashed or cured properly. After the car is painted they soften up when the solvents from the paint soak into them and things happen, shrinkage, die back, etc.

I suspect these primers to hold up just fine, the clear coat is likely what will fail if anything. But only time will tell. I will put it out in my back yard and we well see!

Brian
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
I did just notice however that I am a dumb ars and was reading the wrong side of my mil gauge! Notice it says "Side", that is for reading a vertical surface, not the top as I am doing in the photo. So, it isn't going to be 6 mils, but a little less. Still impressive, but it is not the 6 mils as I have said.

Brian
 
How can you make a 2K primer without using a catalyst? I was under the impression that 2K products were catalized. If it is catalized why does it not get hard in the can? Not saying it can,t be done I was just wondering.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
Very good question, I answered it in the first posts I made on these products a long time ago and should have went over it again here.

It DOES have a hardener that you "add" to it. In the bottom of the can there is a "button" sticking out. The cap of the can has a "knob" that you remove and then stick on the "button" under the can and push on it, this breaks a hardener container inside the can releasing it into the primer!

Brian
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Here is how the can works.

Brian

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Hmmm, Very interesting. I will get some of this next week and try it. I am restoring a 76 camaro and after stripping the roof I used lacquer aerosol primer. I do not have a garage so I have been fighting surface rust coming up in the primer. The bad thing about lacquer is it does not seal the metal and also it attracts moisture.What does this 2K primer cost per can? I will surely get some next week. Thanks
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Hmmm, Very interesting. I will get some of this next week and try it. I am restoring a 76 camaro and after stripping the roof I used lacquer aerosol primer. I do not have a garage so I have been fighting surface rust coming up in the primer. The bad thing about lacquer is it does not seal the metal and also it attracts moisture.What does this 2K primer cost per can? I will surely get some next week. Thanks
If you are going to be applying over bare metal for the purpose of "sealing" it, I would got with the epoxy primer #RS-587

It does say that the pot life is 4 days on the epoxy. But I have to tell you, if you were to shoot a roof, yowwie, that is going to take a few cans. I did a metal cabinet about 36x18x18 on three sides and I barely got one coat on with one can and only about a mil and a half. They are about 20 bucks. The epoxy was TOTALLY insoluable though, VERY impressive lacquer thinner or urethane reducer didn't touch it once cured over night, VERY impressive.

Brian

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Yes, it took 4 cans of the lacquar primer. I will get some of the epoxy primmer on Tuesday. I will sleep much better at night knowing my roof is not rusting. I live in north Florida and I think it has rained everyday for the last month and a half. We got 18 inches when tropical storm Fay came through alone. Thanks for the tips. I am happy to see that someone is making products that have a catalyst in aerosol. Makes it easier for us guys who do not have a compressor to get quality products. Thanks
 
Discussion starter · #16 · (Edited)
Thanks for the tips. I am happy to see that someone is making products that have a catalyst in aerosol. Makes it easier for us guys who do not have a compressor to get quality products. Thanks
That is exactly why I am posting this stuff (on a number of forums by the way). I will be posting a complete report when I am done.

There are a number of ego maniacs who have given me a hard time about posting these because they aren't the restoration masters choices. Well, everyone isn't a restoration master!
There are thousands upon thousands of people out there who can't do the "top dog" stuff for one reason or another. I like looking at the "bestest" way to do things, is it the "best", no, but if you can't do it the "best" way, how about the "bestest" way?

So far, I think these 2K products in an aerosol can are the "BESTEST" by far and may be a way for many guys out there to do a REAL nice job without the benifit of a compressor and expensive tools.

I think the cost of these products out of my wallet (I was given the primers and clear, but I bought the pre-val and paint) to do these tests is well worth it to see the smile on some guys face getting this stuff done in his garage without some big shot messing with this day. :)

Brian
 
As I have stated in the past Brian, I save all of your articles and reference them quite often. I also pass them along when someone else needs help and either you aren't around, or they aren't familiar with your "Basics of Basics". Great stuff and your time spent on each of the articles is always appreciated.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
Thank you so much for the kind words. You can believe me, it is my pleasure!

Brian
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
One of my co-workers "helped" me by spraying this fender today. I was planning on a full on aerosol repair but that will have to come with another fender darn it.

But this is a good test too, he applied regular S-W base over it and then a urethane clear from a gun. He knew I was just testing this primer so he wasn't careful and did pile it on a little thick getting few runs. So this is a good test as to if it would shrink. It was baked at 140 and it shows absolutely ZERO shrinkage. Now remember I "asked" it to fill 80 grit scratches so holding up is pretty impressive.

It has ZERO shrinkage at the edge of the primer as well, these damn aerosol cans are darn impressive.

Brian

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Got my 2 cans of 2K Clear Coat today!
I am excited. Quality Clear Coat in a can.
Painted my Hood on my Chrysler Town & Country on Monday.
Clear Coat tomorrow morning. Can't wait.

Next Day, FRIDAY - Bummer:
I guess i just found one of their problems. I put the button on the bottom of the first can and pushed slowly, firmly and straight down. The button just crushed. This can is now unusable. Now I went to the 2nd can (aware of the problem) and being even more careful. I pushed this button even more carefully and it did the same thing. Now i have 2 really pretty metal cans. Maybe I should have HIT them firmly with my palm, but the directions said, "just push." Good news is, my local paint store sell a different brand of the same thing. I will go get that. Guess I won't be trying the Medallion Product RS-588 today. That sucks! I am wondering if the button is bad or if the resin has already hardened??? I would not think the resin could harden.
02H149/68003 - Both Cans have this coded number on the bottom.

I just got off the phone with the manufacturer to confirm that pushing the button slowly and firmly was correct. It is. They were offering me 2 new cans and I said that since it has a shelf life, i don't really need them right now. And said I would have them send me some later. Off to the Paint Supply shop. If they don't have the cans, I will spray with a gun today.

Brian, do you already have the clear coat cans or are you ordering soon???

The manufacturer just called me back. He apologized for saying that it should be slow and firm. IT IS NOT SUPPOSE TO BE SLOW AND FIRM, IT IS TO BE QUICK AND HARD. Now I will see how they follow up on the replacement of the 2 cans? Can says" Press red button with ball of hand until stop is reached." It really needs added quickly and firmly. Apparently they are coming out with a new button.
 
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