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80% quarter cut location

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insomniac2k1

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I'm going to be doing both quarters soon and I am looking for general advice on this. I have been hammering the search button quite a bit, but still have a few questions.

The things that I think I've decided on are: I will be using an 80% quarter, and I will be butt welding it.

I've seen the quarter cut locations in various locations. I would imagine that most are out of pure preference. Questions to follow:

1. I've seen people cut and replace above the body line on the top. It seems to me that there would be less body work this way(little to no filler on the side), but would be harder to clean up the inside of the trunk area, because you would be grinding inverted. Are my assumptions right or wrong here?

2. Most 80% replacements i've seen are cut about 1/2" below the body lines and bends. Wouldnt there be more potention for warpage here? What are the pros and cons of this vs the above way?

3. Most pictures i see of all patch panels do not show the very back of the quarter. Is this pretty much the same as the rest? Do i want to cut this area right on the corner, leave a 1/2" lip (same as the rest)? Or do I want to let the panel wrap around cut the backside of the quarter?

3. Any other tricks of the trade? Different cut locations, etc?

Any advice here is much appreciated.
 
#2 ·
I have done them on the side about 1" down. There can be alot of warpage due to how you weld it. Take your time and do a tack about every 1". I always thought it was easier to do the body work on the side of the quarter sine it was a bigger area and you dont have to mess with a edge. Only thing I dont like it seeing the seam in the quarter panel from the inside.

Now if you do it on the top of the quarter panel you have a smaller area for body work and you wont see the seam when you look at the inside of the trunk.

The ones that I did was about 10 years ago and they are making better panels now also.
 
#3 ·
It's faster to hang a full qrtr. Especially if you've never done bodywork before. I think a lot of backyard bodymen do 80%'s because of intimidation. I can weld and butter up a side stitch fast only because I've been laying cheese for over 20 years. The first timer will be a while. But if you want to learn, knock yourself out. It's the only way you will.
 
#4 ·
Im with Scott on this. It will also produce a better finished car that looks better,lasts longer and will add value to your car over butchered on 1/4s.Not saying your a butcher its that welded seams in the middle of a panel or too close to the surface will always come back to haunt a paint job.
 
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#5 ·
Keep in mind also that people will question the quality of the work if they see 80%'s and are purchasing a car. If I did not know the abilities of the person who performed the work I would assume I have to redo it. You'll learn plenty doing a full qrtr. and save yourself time. Just look at the linear feet you have to butter up with a partial.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Not to offend, but I have my mind made up on the 80% quarter. I was just looking for pros and cons on where to cut, etc.

I can completely respect your logic on doing a full. It makes perfect sense. My reasoning is the following:

As you and others stated, because im a beginner, I dont want to get too involved with all the other stuff that is associated with replacing a complete quarter. I just feel that a partial is more in my comfort space and something that i can control. Add that to the cost factor of an 80% vs a full, and I believe that there are compelling reasons for both.

I fully intend on cleaning up both sides of the weld (wherever visable). This is the part that sucks, from what i've read. I wont be happy with it until I feel that even a trained eye would have a hard time finding the patch.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Discussion starter · #10 ·
Will do! Everything ive read started out as "The install went well, until I welded too long or grinded too hard". I will make my best attempt to learn from those mistakes. :thumbsup:

Sauron67MM said:
Then practice restraint and patience. Grinding creates heat and warpage too. Just grind the welds with control and precision. Don't attack it like an animal. It's easy. It's only bodywork.
Click to expand...
 
#11 ·
we didnt put full quarters in ours, we cut along the top of the fender above the body line and down beside the trunk edge. As for cleanup of the underside... no problem. Skim over with grinding wheel to knock off any hi spots/weld. primered well and when done we painted the whole trunk inside with upol raptor. The bedliner has textured feel, yo cant even tell its been repaired.

Regardles of what you hang, full or partial quarters... they all should be skim coated with filler. I have yet to see a panel replacement that did not take some filler, even NOS parts.

As for the other edges... We cut in 1 inch around the door jamb, rocker panel and rear panel. This helped control some of the weld warpage, as we are close to a bend/body edge/fold, the further away from a corner then the higher chance of warpage. Considering we have done this several times before though I would suggest a 1.6 - 2 inch border for the 1st timer, this way if you screw up you can always buy another panel and try again (perk of the panel being cheaper than a full quarter). You could do 1inch and if you needed to redo, cut in at .6 inch if you wanted. But I have never gotten that close personally I just feel good with a 1 inch out butted seam.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the feedback. I really like the look of that raptor liner stuff. I will be using that on my wheel wells.

As for the skim coat comment. I've been under the impression that epoxy primer over bare metal then filler is the new way to go. Since this is a patch area, would this change it a bit?

So basically epoxy primer all other metal, but skim the area of the weld cleanup before epoxy? If thats the case, would I want to use something like All-metal?

Thanks all for the feedback so far. I will definitely go at least 1" from the seams/lines for my first and hopefully only attempt at these :)

68IslTeal said:
we didnt put full quarters in ours, we cut along the top of the fender above the body line and down beside the trunk edge. As for cleanup of the underside... no problem. Skim over with grinding wheel to knock off any hi spots/weld. primered well and when done we painted the whole trunk inside with upol raptor. The bedliner has textured feel, yo cant even tell its been repaired.

Regardles of what you hang, full or partial quarters... they all should be skim coated with filler. I have yet to see a panel replacement that did not take some filler, even NOS parts.

As for the other edges... We cut in 1 inch around the door jamb, rocker panel and rear panel. This helped control some of the weld warpage, as we are close to a bend/body edge/fold, the further away from a corner then the higher chance of warpage. Considering we have done this several times before though I would suggest a 1.6 - 2 inch border for the 1st timer, this way if you screw up you can always buy another panel and try again (perk of the panel being cheaper than a full quarter). You could do 1inch and if you needed to redo, cut in at .6 inch if you wanted. But I have never gotten that close personally I just feel good with a 1 inch out butted seam.
Click to expand...
 
#13 ·
I use rage extreme body filler... the rest is junk imo. No offense to anyone I just have been really impressed with that brand of filler.

As to the primer... here is my suggestion. Get a high build primer like slicksand or something similar. This stuff will reduce the need for filler. This stuff is the great equalizer imo.

For a 1st timer/novice I would suggest:

Put in your panels, grind em down, hit the panel with hi build primer then skim your welds... then sand.

rinse repeat as needed.
 
Discussion starter · #14 · (Edited)
Ok, so your saying to prime before fill in either case then right?

I'm a big fan of epoxy primers already. I've already shot my undercarriage with it. Seems like good stuff.

I just want to make sure that since im welding a patch, i wont have to fill before prime. Am i interpreting wrong here?

Edit: Guess i should have read your post more thoroughly. Would i assume that the high build is an etching primer as well? I will go look up slicksand after this post. Just wanted to throw this quick edit in.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
To paint a better graphic on what i was wondering how far to cut into in the back, i've attached a picture. The white line is where the 80% patch panel goes to . The top is easy enough IMO. Make a butt weld somewhere in the middle, clean and go. The back is what i have questions about.

The patch panel is pretty rough and will obviously need trimming and "massaging". But do i want to cut it right where the panels meet? Back a bit? Or do i want to work my way back around to the side where there is less curves?
 

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#16 ·
68IslTeal said:
I use rage extreme body filler... the rest is junk imo. No offense to anyone I just have been really impressed with that brand of filler.

As to the primer... here is my suggestion. Get a high build primer like slicksand or something similar. This stuff will reduce the need for filler. This stuff is the great equalizer imo.

For a 1st timer/novice I would suggest:

Put in your panels, grind em down, hit the panel with hi build primer then skim your welds... then sand.

rinse repeat as needed.
Click to expand...

X2 on the Rage. we like the Rage Extreme Gold. Sands easily,and less shrinkage than most.:thumbsup:
 
#17 ·
insomniac2k1 said:
To paint a better graphic on what i was wondering how far to cut into in the back, i've attached a picture. The white line is where the 80% patch panel goes to . The top is easy enough IMO. Make a butt weld somewhere in the middle, clean and go. The back is what i have questions about.

The patch panel is pretty rough and will obviously need trimming and "massaging". But do i want to cut it right where the panels meet? Back a bit? Or do i want to work my way back around to the side where there is less curves?
Click to expand...
I would not cut it where the panels meet. To me improper appearance in that area looks butchered. Anything less than factory correct lines back there and a nice pichweld looks hacked. If you think you can cut it 3/8 out from where the panels meet and maintain the metal surface appearance go for it. You may be better of cutting it toward the frt of the qrtr more. If you do and do it right and you can massage the remnant to fit the new, weld it carefully and the result is very little filler. The latter being your objective for the entire project. You've got your lessons ahead of you. I stated my opinion: Full qrtrs are less work. But if you have the time and want to save some coin then giddy up.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
Thank you! This was a bit fuzzy for me. I was definitely worried about being able to "feather" it in right next to the factory crimp. Good to hear that would be a bad idea. I will do some more reading about whether i want to cut on top or on the face. As of now, id like to cut along the top and then cut short (down the face) before i reach the tail end of the panel. I may Just be overthinking it :D

Thank you all so much for your feedback. It has been very informative.

Sauron67MM said:
I would not cut it where the panels meet. To me improper appearance in that area looks butchered. Anything less than factory correct lines back there and a nice pichweld looks hacked. If you think you can cut it 3/8 out from where the panels meet and maintain the metal surface appearance go for it. You may be better of cutting it toward the frt of the qrtr more. If you do and do it right and you can massage the remnant to fit the new, weld it carefully and the result is very little filler. The latter being your objective for the entire project. You've got your lessons ahead of you. I stated my opinion: Full qrtrs are less work. But if you have the time and want to save some coin then giddy up.
Click to expand...
 
#19 · (Edited)
This is just my idea on all metal ( body filler / bondo ). I stretched my quarters for the pro street deal 5". I used all metal on my quarters. Now this was done 17 years ago. I also did not butt weld them but put a flange on them. I used all metal on the whole quarter panel. You could never see a seam and they were flatter than hell. Then I decided to do my car again and had it media blasted. They did a terrible job and cut into my body work on the quarters. So I decided to use body filler on it this time. I think I used Rage Extreme. Now when the heat hits that spot ( hot texas sun )or when I was buffing it for the first time I could see the seam. So this time when I redo my car I will use all metal on my quarter panel. Also a good friend who is a body man says to not do the flange and butt weld it and you wont see the seam.

This is just my experience and alot of technology has changed in the last 10 years.
 
#20 ·
prostreet69camaro said:
This is just my idea on all metal. I stretched my quarters for the pro street deal 5". I used all metal on my quarters. Now this was done 17 years ago. I also did not butt weld them but put a flange on them. I used all metal on the whole quarter panel. You could never see a seam and they were flatter than hell. Then I decided to do my car again and had it media blasted. They did a terrible job and cut into my body work on the quarters. So I decided to use body filler on it this time. I think I used Rage Extreme. Now when the heat hits that spot ( hot texas sun )or when I was buffing it for the first time I could see the seam. So this time when I redo my car I will use all metal on my quarter panel. Also a good friend who is a body man says to not do the flange and butt weld it and you wont see the seam.

This is just my experience and alot of technology has changed in the last 10 years.
Click to expand...
The principles of metallurgy as they pertain to expansion and contraction cause the ghost line of which you speak. I don't have all the data on that. I'm not a fan of these types of replacements but as your friend says there is nothing wrong with butt welding as opposed to lap. I've done butt panels and cut bike tanks and butt weld bungs in them with no phantom lines.

Insomniac,
If the bodyline on the top of the repo qrtr looks bad you may opt for a side seam instead of a top seam. Not really a good idea to be using filler to crisp up those peaks.
 
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insomniac2k1
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