I am really interested in the new Ls motors. It seems guys are making BIG RWHP with relatively mild motors. I dont fully understand how they do it on so few cubes, but I guess I'll bite. Now, will theese things really run with or around a mild-modest 454 ??? I mean 100more cubes should get it done alot easier. my 10.5:1 454 has run a 12.02@115. I know there is alot more in my car with further tuning, but will the 6.0L , or 6.2L with work run as hard or better?????
6.0L LS or bigblock??
3pedals
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407 Posts
dollar for dollar spent you will make more power with a big block over an ls.those plug in and play FI setups are great for driveability and average power but every back to back test ive seen vs carb they dont make any more power.the high dollar FAST and DFi setups make big power on fast cars but they are as expensive as a good shortblock and require a learning process that exceeds what most average hobbyists can or want to handle.Build the biggest BB you can afford keep it below 11 to 1 w alum. heads ,keep the cam reasonable and it will live forever ,have more power than youll ever be able to put to the ground and blow the doors off 90% of any ls powered cars.
Very cool! I enjoyed daily driving my 69 ragtop, was something to look forward to every day! :thumbsup:
Joined
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4,280 Posts
lBut 400rwhp and 20+mpg isnt greater then
600+fwhp and no mpg
Can you'll tell I'm "old school"
:thumbsup::thumbsup:. I seem to fit into the same category as you 67RS502 as evidenced by my signature !!!!!!David F.
I'm not sure that's entirely true. I bought the entire engine, accessories, harness and computer 3 years ago for $800. I then added a cam and head package for $1600, $100 for a tuning license. There's odds and ends like headers, water pump etc. but you would have to buy them for the BBC too. I sold the old heads, intake, throttle body and accessory for $400 So I'm in the package for $2100 and pushing my dragster to 154MPH. I'm not sure exactly how much HP the equates to because I don't know the weight of the dragster but there are MANY big block dragsters at the 2 tracks we've been at running MUCH slower.
Lee
WOW that is an accomplishment, and dirt cheap too!
I know the reher-morrison motors cost around $15k turn key and still only run 160mph making 800-1000hp
A shafiroff will get you to almost 200mph, but that is a 565", dry sump, big duke headed 30 grand motor... and I've seen my fair share of those bust their guts all over the track.
Interesting debate.
Last night I read the "What's Your Problem" section of the December Car Craft and a guy stroked and poked a 6.2L engine to 418ci, put a 243/251,.654/.661 hydraulic roller and GM performance parts CNC L92 heads on it and went 11.16@117 in a 3800lb. truck! That's impressive to me...
Last night I read the "What's Your Problem" section of the December Car Craft and a guy stroked and poked a 6.2L engine to 418ci, put a 243/251,.654/.661 hydraulic roller and GM performance parts CNC L92 heads on it and went 11.16@117 in a 3800lb. truck! That's impressive to me...
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57 Posts
I'm sure back in the days, this same debate went on when the SBC first popped out, and flathead running guys were all annoyed at it.
I have a friend that just put down more hp than my 489 with a 402 stroker LS1...and more TQ too...and it sounds like my BBC...
First time I opened up my 08 Z06 I said "da&n, I think it pulls as hard as the camaro!".
Comparison factor: the LS7 puts down about 450 rwhp 365rwtq stock, add a mild cam, you are at 500-515 rwhp...and that's just a cam and tune (no headers, no exht mod, stock intake etc).
I love BBC, but to be quite honest, if you want to rival the up coming "new kid" (talking about the LS engines) then you better build something like 540+ with really good heads.
Aftermarket LS blocks can be bored and stroked to 532 ci. Now, all they need is a head with enough volume to support those cubes.
Cubes for Cubes, the LS will win.
Yeah, it's sickening to know that my "hot rod" is probably not faster than the DD, and if it is, probably not by much!
I have a friend that just put down more hp than my 489 with a 402 stroker LS1...and more TQ too...and it sounds like my BBC...
First time I opened up my 08 Z06 I said "da&n, I think it pulls as hard as the camaro!".
Comparison factor: the LS7 puts down about 450 rwhp 365rwtq stock, add a mild cam, you are at 500-515 rwhp...and that's just a cam and tune (no headers, no exht mod, stock intake etc).
I love BBC, but to be quite honest, if you want to rival the up coming "new kid" (talking about the LS engines) then you better build something like 540+ with really good heads.
Aftermarket LS blocks can be bored and stroked to 532 ci. Now, all they need is a head with enough volume to support those cubes.
Cubes for Cubes, the LS will win.
Yeah, it's sickening to know that my "hot rod" is probably not faster than the DD, and if it is, probably not by much!
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2,083 Posts
I like this pic, my next car will be an twin Turbo LSX for sure. But just had to have that big block this time :thumbsup:![Image]()
Jody
To me the old engines look better (especially in a muscle car)
I really don’t care how much power a engine makes as the ls1s
seem to make power but don’t run all that well at the track (or street).
Its really about what your car runs, and you see a lot of old sbc / bbc
that run andwork well and not too many late model ls1s. At the track you don’t
see too many 10sec street cars, but the late model guys claim big power
(500-600+) and only run 12s or 11s .
I can only remember two ls1 cars I’ve been impressed with.
One was stock short block running 10.60s or 10.70s.
The other is a 440+ cube ls1 that’s pump gas and hyd roller
(driven on the street) and runs 9.30s or 9.40s… that’s impressive!
But other than that I haven’t been too impressed as most have
big cams loud exhaust (crappy sounding at that) and only run 12s or 11s.
Plus I enjoy putting it on ‘em (late model croud) with my smooth idle 383
I think its just which way you wanna do it, some (old school guys) like to build
their own engine (and cars) pay attn. to details and make them run.
Others like to pay someone to build stuff for them and just have a nice cruiser,
which the ls1 is great for. People just want different things out of their muscle car.
Some are stock-ish cruiser and some street/strip cars. Its all – in what you want.
I know that most arnt as hardcore about performance as me and some of my friends.
But its pretty easy nowadays to build a mild sbc and go 10s. Throw some cam at it and
9s are possible. With 18deg heads you can go deep into the 9s.
I really don’t care how much power a engine makes as the ls1s
seem to make power but don’t run all that well at the track (or street).
Its really about what your car runs, and you see a lot of old sbc / bbc
that run andwork well and not too many late model ls1s. At the track you don’t
see too many 10sec street cars, but the late model guys claim big power
(500-600+) and only run 12s or 11s .
I can only remember two ls1 cars I’ve been impressed with.
One was stock short block running 10.60s or 10.70s.
The other is a 440+ cube ls1 that’s pump gas and hyd roller
(driven on the street) and runs 9.30s or 9.40s… that’s impressive!
But other than that I haven’t been too impressed as most have
big cams loud exhaust (crappy sounding at that) and only run 12s or 11s.
Plus I enjoy putting it on ‘em (late model croud) with my smooth idle 383
I think its just which way you wanna do it, some (old school guys) like to build
their own engine (and cars) pay attn. to details and make them run.
Others like to pay someone to build stuff for them and just have a nice cruiser,
which the ls1 is great for. People just want different things out of their muscle car.
Some are stock-ish cruiser and some street/strip cars. Its all – in what you want.
I know that most arnt as hardcore about performance as me and some of my friends.
But its pretty easy nowadays to build a mild sbc and go 10s. Throw some cam at it and
9s are possible. With 18deg heads you can go deep into the 9s.
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4,866 Posts
Nice cruisers like Penny, Jack ***, CarlC's '68 and Stielow's Camaro X, that sort of cruiser?
You are comparing a basically stock ls1 aside from the crappy exhaust, a tune, and maybe headers with a cold air intake, to a ground up built bbc or sbc.To me the old engines look better (especially in a muscle car)
I really don’t care how much power a engine makes as the ls1s
seem to make power but don’t run all that well at the track (or street).
Its really about what your car runs, and you see a lot of old sbc / bbc
that run andwork well and not too many late model ls1s. At the track you don’t
see too many 10sec street cars, but the late model guys claim big power
(500-600+) and only run 12s or 11s .
I can only remember two ls1 cars I’ve been impressed with.
One was stock short block running 10.60s or 10.70s.
The other is a 440+ cube ls1 that’s pump gas and hyd roller
(driven on the street) and runs 9.30s or 9.40s… that’s impressive!
But other than that I haven’t been too impressed as most have
big cams loud exhaust (crappy sounding at that) and only run 12s or 11s.
Plus I enjoy putting it on ‘em (late model croud) with my smooth idle 383
I think its just which way you wanna do it, some (old school guys) like to build
their own engine (and cars) pay attn. to details and make them run.
Others like to pay someone to build stuff for them and just have a nice cruiser,
which the ls1 is great for. People just want different things out of their muscle car.
Some are stock-ish cruiser and some street/strip cars. Its all – in what you want.
I know that most arnt as hardcore about performance as me and some of my friends.
But its pretty easy nowadays to build a mild sbc and go 10s. Throw some cam at it and
9s are possible. With 18deg heads you can go deep into the 9s.
Line up one of those crappy sounding ls1's (stock) up against a stock first gen. One of them is going to get their lunch taken by about 4 seconds.
Joined
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1,339 Posts
get the big block, fuel injected DIS engines dont belong in muscle cars IMO
Did I mention I run 91 pump gas? Heck I could get away with 89 but I wouldn't feel like a racer!
67RS502, you aren't comparing apples to apples. Those guys your talking about are taking a daily driver with all life's luxuries included and throwing on some bolt ons and getting out there and laying down incredible times. Take what you have in your 383(502) cost wise, throw that in an LS1 and I believe the LS1 will out perform in every manor and still get 20+ MPG driving to and from the track. Yes they are ugly but they work very well and as time goes on their finding more and more tricks to get them even faster. Give the LS1 50 years like the SBC! Lord knows what we'll be getting out of them....
I know this is just internet bench racing but when I take drag2000 for the dragster and change it to a 69 camaro at 3326# it says it will run a 10.58@126, put it in a gutted 2800# camaro and it shows 10 flat at 132, not bad for a pump gas 5.7L.
Lee
67RS502, you aren't comparing apples to apples. Those guys your talking about are taking a daily driver with all life's luxuries included and throwing on some bolt ons and getting out there and laying down incredible times. Take what you have in your 383(502) cost wise, throw that in an LS1 and I believe the LS1 will out perform in every manor and still get 20+ MPG driving to and from the track. Yes they are ugly but they work very well and as time goes on their finding more and more tricks to get them even faster. Give the LS1 50 years like the SBC! Lord knows what we'll be getting out of them....
I know this is just internet bench racing but when I take drag2000 for the dragster and change it to a 69 camaro at 3326# it says it will run a 10.58@126, put it in a gutted 2800# camaro and it shows 10 flat at 132, not bad for a pump gas 5.7L.
Lee
The LSX is superior in every way except for low end torque. They don't leak, get great gas mileage, make more power per cube, and are more reliable. I still wanted a big block in my 69 Camaro. If I built a purpose built race car or a car that was made for touring America, then I would stuff an LSX in for sure. I still love the meat under the hood and that sound is impossible to replicate.
![Image]()
At the tires on 91 octane and 9.5-1 compression. I have a hydraulic roller in this thing too. If I put a mechanical cam in the motor I'm making at least 50/50 more at the tires. It comes out of the corners on a road course and autocross track like it's pissed off! I just out ran a Nissan GTR and multiple Corvettes last Sunday with my car on the autocross. They can be fast, it's just not the easiest way.
![Image]()
At the tires on 91 octane and 9.5-1 compression. I have a hydraulic roller in this thing too. If I put a mechanical cam in the motor I'm making at least 50/50 more at the tires. It comes out of the corners on a road course and autocross track like it's pissed off! I just out ran a Nissan GTR and multiple Corvettes last Sunday with my car on the autocross. They can be fast, it's just not the easiest way.
Ya...I want a stockish looking type cruiser that runs 11's at the track and even, maybe gets little air under the front tire at launch but that I can also drive anywhere!
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1,295 Posts
Im 22 years old and i turn my nose up to anything other than a traditional big or small block in an old car. But thats just me. To each their own and i give total respect to opinions and the hard work it took to put that LS or whatever in your car. If it was me though, id stick with the BBC.
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