327-Reinstalling Distributor/Summit Balancer Markings

mkoon · Nov 21, 2009

Need some help here. Last weekend I replaced my intake manifold gasket and in the process, when removing the distributor, I messed up the gear and am having trouble getting her right. Won't even fire. I read up on how to get the rotor in the 5:30 position(assuming that's standing in front of the car looking at it), as I have HEI. It's a 327 with 202 heads and mild cam. I am having a hard time finding TDC and in looking at the harmonic balancer, I can no longer read the markings on the aftermarket Summit balancer it has on it. Looks like there are about 3" worth of tick marks on the balancer. My questions are:

1) Is 0 the 1st tick mark L to R, in the middle or the last tick mark?
2) Reliable way to find TDC with that motor. I took the plug out and tried to feed a wire in there to feel the top of the cylinder and I cannot seem to get it in there right.
3) Is 5:30 correct for #1?
4) See pic for the timing mark on the chain cover that reads A - O - R. I am assuming when I find 0 on the balancer I line that up with 0 on the timing chain marker and then hit 5:30 with #1, but that hasn't seemed to work. Won't even fire.

Help............

Thanks!

PowerWindows · Nov 21, 2009

The pic looks like you're at 6 deg advanced. Good enough to get it to start. But:

Are you aware that you may be up on 6 as opposed to 1? Remember the crank goes 720 deg (2 revolutions) to the camshfts 360 deg (1 revolution).

What you need to do is find #1 cylinder when it comes up on compession. Disconnect coil wire at coil and remove the plug in #1 cylinder. I don't know what you have to do with an HEI but you need to turn over the engine without the plugs getting a spark. Put you finger over the spark plug hole. Spin the motor with the starter til you feel it coming up on compression. The spot your showing now with compression on #1 means you're at #1 ready to fire.

Now remove the dizzy (if you haven't already). Get a long flat blade screwdriver and use that to align the oil pump drive shaft to the 6:00 position (along the length of the car). Now take the dizzy (cap off) and get the rotor pointing straight to the front. Turn the rotor 1/8th turn CCW. Position with the vacuum advance canister pointed in the 7:00 position (more or less) and push dizzy down into the cam gear. It will rotate and engage with the pump driveshaft.

REMEMBER THE GASKET between the manifold and the distributor. Otherwise it'll leak (ooze really).

Now reinstall the plug and wires. Attach the timing light and turn the ignition to the run position (do not start the engine or turn it over - run position only). With the switch on the light depressed rotate the dizzy til the light flashes. Might take a few time but get it as close as possible.tighten dizzy down. Now you're on 6-8 deg initial with #1 up and firing. Baring any other malfunction it should start.

Let me know if it works.

TJS69 · Nov 21, 2009

There should be a timing mark like this on your Harmonic balancer. Mark it with chalk, white-out, paint etc. so it is easy to see.

These are the factory locations on the dist cap. Mark #1 cylinder on distributor base, so you know where it is with the cap off.

It is easiest for me to have the valve cover removed so when the mark is on 0°, Both valves should be clossed on the #1 cylinder and the rocker arms should be loose. If one or both are tight, you are 1 revolution of the crankshaft off. (180° at the distributor) Turn the crankshaft 1 complete revolution and with your marks lined up, that should be 0° with #1 cylinder firing.

It is important to remember that the crankshaft rotates around twice and the camshft is only once.

TJS69 · Nov 21, 2009

mkoon · Nov 21, 2009

I've got an aftermarket Summit balancer on there and I cannot read the tick marks. I can read the very furthest one to the right(standing in front of car looking down at it) and it says 40. Is the middle 0 and the far left 40 again? I am able to get #1 up to the top, but haven't taken the valve cover off to make sure the valves are closed, but I will. My question is, I get #1 on the HEI dist. to the 5:30 position(from the front looking at it), I think #1 at TDC and it does not fire at all and when I took the plug out and had it still in the wire touching metal, it did not spark. Tried #2 and same thing, no spark at all. Ta boot, my starter is starting to smoke after the repeated attempts to start it. Arhhhh, frustrating. Does this mean I am 180 deg off?

PowerWindows · Nov 21, 2009

Take the cap off. Does the rotor point towards the front or towards the firewall?

If it's towards the firewall and you're positive you have #1 up on compression then you have it 180 deg out.

If the rotor points towards the front (5:30 or towards the #1 plug) and it still won't spark then you may have other problems. 1st culprit might be the coil.

TJS69 · Nov 22, 2009

You should have spark, at some time... no matter how far off you are with the distributor shaft location.
Can you post a picture of the marks on your harmonic balancer ?

mkoon · Nov 22, 2009

So, I again attempted to get it #1 to TDC and I am relatively confident I did and the marks are not near the gauge, but both rocker arms were loose. That being said, when I turned the pulley about another two-three inches, the rocker arms didn't tighten at all. Not sure if that is normal. I was able to get the rotor in the 6 oclock position and match the key at the bottom so that seems to work. Attached is a pic of the balancer marks I have to go by, which are extremely hard to read. Still though, when I was turning it over earlier today, even if I was nowhere near correct, #1 should have fired at some point when I had the plug out and in the wire. I even took #3 out and at the same time cranked it over and I never saw one spark out of either one. Weird thing is it worked fine before I took it apart(famous last words I know). It wasn't running perfect, but it ran fine. Is it rare to have the rotor go bad just by handling the distributor out of the engine? I never took the rotor off. Not sure how old it is, maybe 10yrs???? I bought the car in March of this year and I believe it sat for some period of time. Thanks for the help thus far, much appreciated.

mkoon · Nov 22, 2009

One more thing, that blue line towards the bottom of the pulley is what I think is 0 at TDC.

markw · Nov 22, 2009

Have a look at fig.2 here. http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/100/121/121-8985.pdf See where TDC is? Can you clean that balancer and read the lines better? You may have to get a piston stop and find true TDC.

brownnote · Nov 22, 2009

well, when you were trying to check for spark on the plug that was out, did you have the ignition on, and was the plug grounded so the spark had a path to travel? Sorry for the simple questions, just wanted to rule it out.

And yes, the rockers will be "loose" if you are on the compression stroke spinning the balancer because both valves are closed for that event mostly entirely.

I think that is what you are saying right?

mkoon · Nov 22, 2009

I was actually turning it over with the key and had the plug laying on the header. I will try it again to make sure it wasn't a ground issue. The rockers were loose enough to move, maybe 1/8" either way. That being said, there were about three other rockers on that same side I could move the same amount. The others were tight. Another thing I have seen a couple different answers on is positioning of the rotor for an HEI system. Is it 5:30 or 6? Thanks for all the help everyone.

TJS69 · Nov 22, 2009

I don't think that blue mark is "0".

Here is a picture of a summit balancer. Your "0" should be on the other end of your hash marks. It should be just to the left of the crankshaft key way. You would have to take your bottom pulley off to see it. (If this is an early 327 "0" will be in line with key way.)

It should be about 5:00 or 5:30. 6:00 is too far, but actually "close enough". See the pic of terminal locations in a previous post.

Did you remember to plug your distributor in ? (wire connectors on the cap)

TJS69 · Nov 22, 2009

mkoon · Nov 22, 2009

So I got the rotor lined up with #1 at 5:30, put the leading edge of the tick marks on 0(similar to what was in the diagram above) and turned it over with #1 spark plug out and firmly touching the header and no spark whatsoever. Shouldn't I have a spark or even hear some attempt at the engine firing, even if I have it way out of whack? I didn't take the rotor off or apart, but would it be possible that the rotor was jockeyed around enough when I took the dist. out and knowing it is likely 10+ yrs old, that it went bad?

TJS69 · Nov 22, 2009

Anything is possible. You are now fighting a different problem. Now that you think your timing is correct, look for the spark at night... in the dark. I have thought I was not getting spark, and then when it was dark, the spark magicly appeared.

If your timing is now right, give it a try and it should fire right up.

TJS69 · Nov 22, 2009

Make sure you are getting 12 volts to the distributor - with the key in the Run position. (on)

mkoon · Nov 27, 2009

I am pretty confident I am no longer getting a spark. I checked it again with the plug firmly against the block in a dark garage and nothing. And when I turn it over there isn't the faintest of fire or backfire for that matter. Even if I don't have the timing right, which I feel I do, shouldn't it fire at some point? Sooooo, my question is, is there another way to check my rotor/dist. to confirm they are or are not providing spark? Should I just replace the rotor? Help........

mkoon · Nov 27, 2009

TJS69-I tried to get some juice at the BAT connection with the ignition on and nothing, not even a reading above 0. Like I said way back when, everything worked fine before I changed the intake gasket, is it really possible I all the sudden have a bad dist or coil?

TJS69 · Nov 27, 2009

You are right in thinking, that it should spark even if your timing is off. Make sure you are getting 12 volts to the distributor ! A rotor doesn't usually quite working, all of a sudden. I would suspect the coil or the module before that. We have to find out 1st if you are getting power ! (12-volts)

327-Reinstalling Distributor/Summit Balancer Markings

mkoon

PowerWindows

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PowerWindows

TJS69

mkoon

mkoon

markw

brownnote

mkoon

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mkoon

TJS69

TJS69

mkoon

mkoon

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