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Squaring up a BB in a 67

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RS-man

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi...Well i post a few comments ant new subjects on here and i must say
the advise an knowledge is great....so heres a new one for ya's

67rs...454/400t....i have a 69 cowl hood and have always had issues with filter clearance....factory rubbers and frame mounts are fitted so the motor is sitting in the bay rolled over and over towards the passenger side (trans)
stock exhaust manifolds
Righty O...this is what i want to do....Winter is here in N.Z so i want
to pull the motor and trans to fix an oil leak so my plan is

Set the BB on the small block frame mounts to get it sitting Perfect in the engine bay....change the trans mount so that everything is level and square
Then make my own set of headers to clear the steering box and starter

that way i wont have a dodgy offset air cleaner to fit the cowl hood

what do yous all think????

also...did the cowel hood ever come out factory BB 67/68??? if so was the hole slightly off set to suit air cleaner??
Thanks heaps
Gav
 
#2 ·
Gav, why are you wanting to set the motor on SB frame mounts? If you make your headers this way then you will have to use those mounts when putting them on the car. It should be sitting in their correctly if you have the right frame stands. No the cowl hood was only a 69 option, but it will fit 67-68. I have BBC in my 67 and bought hooker Comps headers and they fit snug on the drivers side. Hope this helps...
 
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Discussion starter · #3 ·
Hey Jess......i have the motor sitting on the correct frame stands and engine rubbers...but they lean the motor over and then the trans is sitting to the passenger side..all of which is "as the left the factory"...stock manifolds clear the steering box i havnt tried headers,the 3 inch filter sits off set to the cowl hood hole....so ive had to make a filter base that is offset and dropped also had to fit a holley street avenger open plane manifold which is lower than normal.....thats why i'd like to square the motor up so a stock base filter will fit
??? alot of work for not much...lol but this is why ya own them isn't it???
 
#4 ·
Just to answer the question about the hood... no, the cowl hood was not offered on 67-68 models. It (RPO ZL2, hood, special ducted) became available around Jan 69. There is only one hood for either small or big block.

Plenty of factory BBC cars used the hood, and plenty of folks have converted, and I can't remember hearing that the factory offset of the big block (about 1 to 1.5 inches) causing an issue with the air cleaner fitting the hood opening.

I have the cowl hood on my 69 big block car. I have correct 69 BBC frame stands, and the engine is level left to right. With a Performer intake and a Summit 14 inch diameter, 3 inch filter, my air cleaner fits up into the hood opening with no problem. I never bothered checking how much the air cleaner is offset in the hood opening, but I can see the top of the air cleaner through the rear of the scoop, and it looks fine.

Now, if your engine is not level from left to right (you said it is "leaning"), I can see that causing a problem. It takes some work to get it exactly level, but it is not a big deal. If you are using aftermarket OE replacement engine mounts and repro frame stands, you may have to open up the through bolt holes, or stack some washers between the engine mount and block on the driver side to shim that side up a bit. It doesn't take much.

I'd sure try to level out the setup with BBC correct parts before I'd put it in on small block stands and then have to fab headers. There are threads here about over the counter headers (Hooker Comps and a certain Doug's number if I recall correctly) that fit when the BBC correct mounts are used.
 
#5 ·
Gav, I think you need to leave the frame mounts the bbc style. You might need to look at why the engine is leaning. If you have rubber mounts, one might be snagging. I can tell you with the right parts, frame stands, mounts, crossmember, the headers I have, pass side fit perfect, the drivers side was a little snug, but they fit easily. As far as the breather not lining up with the hood. It should be offset some, but 3 inches.. seems a little much... Can you get some pics...
 
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#6 ·
measure the frame to see if it's centered in the car. if it's offset to the passenger side a bit, then that will move the engine over relative to the hole in the hood.
if it still has the stock body mounts, then maybe upgrade to either poly or aluminum solid mounts.
 
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#7 · (Edited)
Check your cowl hood. I believe mine is a GM hood, and the opening is offset to the passenger side by about 1/2". Leave the engine as factory. (moved to the passenger side)

The pinion on the rear end is 1/2" to the passenger side, so your driveline is straight the way it is.

The engine lean to the passenger side is normal.

There are two kits available for the cowl inductions. One is for Big Blocks and one is for small blocks. I do not know the differences in them.
 
owns 1969 Chevrolet Camaro
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Discussion starter · #8 ·
Hey....Thanks for all ya answers.....A little confusing but i'm getting my head around it..lol
Now ,when i done the swap from SB to BB i asked the questions on this forum and purchased the parts as per instructions from forum members..i was told that it is normal for the engine to roll to passenger side and for the trans to swing that way also......i believe in a 69 everything is square and level as that was a factory change????? so of course the hood hole will be also,i do have some pictures but only an engine bay shot,Which unless you look real hard ya won't see anything out of the "norm"
ill try and get some shots of the upstands and the rubbers to...everything is new including the body mounts (poly not rubber)
i cant roll the motor back level towards the driver side ad the steering box is only about 4mm away now
could i have the wrong parts???

Ive tried add in pictures but unsure how to make them work.
in the overall motor shot look at how far the filter sits to the left
Thanks Gav

Image

Image
 

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#9 ·
Everything with your mounts sounds fine. In the above picture your air cleaner appears to be shifted to the drivers side ? It should measure about 1" to the PASSENGER side.

Image
 
owns 1969 Chevrolet Camaro
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Discussion starter · #10 ·
Hey....yeah it is...its like 2 1/2 inches to the drivers side... so by measurement the filter is center of the engine bay and the motor is rolled over to passengers side??
Have i maybe got the wrong upstands on the wrong sides???
gav
 
#11 ·
The taller Frame stand is on the driver's side and the shorter stand is on the passenger side. That is how you get the offset. It rolls the engine in that direction. The difference in height is 1/2". The stands are mounted at an approximate 45° angle, so in actual vertical height it is only 1/4". Contrary to what the guys in previous posts are saying... the engine does NOT sit level. Even my small block is not level or 100% centered in the engine bay !

IF the frame stand are put in on opposite sides, I think the engine would sit to far forward. This would be really noticeable if you were using '69 BBC stands.

The small blocks are real close to being centered in the engine bay. Because of the pivot point of the frame mounts your offset at the carb stud should be more than 1/2". It will be closer to one inch.
 
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#12 ·
Here is a picture of Clicks Camaro, showing how the engine is centered.

Image


Here is a picture, showing the offset at the crossmember.

Image


Here is a better picture of the BBC offset.

Image
 
owns 1969 Chevrolet Camaro
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Discussion starter · #13 ·
Ok...thaks for ya imput.....its got me thinking why i have to offset my airfilter and nobody else has to??? is there a different type hood arrangement???
im pretty sure my hood is a genuine G.M item,not some nasty repro unit
are most BB stock exhaust manifolds simular?? or is there a spacific number manifold i need??
i'll try and get a casting number off it and post the number up today
Thanks Gav
 
#14 ·
The 1st gen Camaro BBC manifolds are pretty specific. Casting numbers end in 879 for DS, 178 for PS. DS has a large relief area cast into side to clear steering box.

Here's a shot of how close the correct 879 DS manifold is to the steering box. Not a lot of room there...

Image



And my engine is prefectly level, side to side.


Image
 
#15 ·
The others are setting you straight on the 'factory' BBC offsets - so I won't comment (or confuse you more) on that.
But ... if you do decide to do as you said in your opening post - and install the shorter SBC towers to 'center' your engine - then you may be pleased to know that you really don't need to make a set of custom headers ;)
Many of the header manufacturers ("Lemon's" headers are known for this - http://www.lemonsheaders.com/products/bbr-505.htm ) actually make more than one style set of BBC headers.
Some are specifically for "swaps" and do not require the use of special 'factory' sized stands/mounts to offset the engine for steering box clearance.
Just another option depending on how you choose to go :thumbsup:
 
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#17 ·
Eric Kammerer said:
Those look like fun to change plugs on :)
Click to expand...
While I will admit I've never done a plug change on that set-up yet, I actually don't think be all that hard really ...
Looks like you can get to all of them fairly easily - but, if you leave the inner fender liners off ... then it would be a 'Day-at-the-Beach' :D
 
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#18 ·
Eric Kammerer said:
Now, if your engine is not level from left to right (you said it is "leaning"), I can see that causing a problem. It takes some work to get it exactly level, but it is not a big deal. If you are using aftermarket OE replacement engine mounts and repro frame stands, you may have to open up the through bolt holes, or stack some washers between the engine mount and block on the driver side to shim that side up a bit. It doesn't take much.

I'd sure try to level out the setup with BBC correct parts before I'd put it in on small block stands and then have to fab headers. There are threads here about over the counter headers (Hooker Comps and a certain Doug's number if I recall correctly) that fit when the BBC correct mounts are used.
Click to expand...
Eric, you are not going to like this, but leveling the engine is not needed and from your pictures, you have put your engine back to the center, just like a small block. I really do not care if YOUR car is this way... just don't tell everyone else that it is supposed to be like yours !

If you allowed your engine to "roll over" on the passenger side mount you would have more clearance at your power steering box ! This also would offset your air cleaner stud farther to the passenger side. (whole engine) but, this is a good place to reference too.

GM designed it this way and it is the way big block cars left the factory. The engine should NOT be level. It should be about 1/4" lower on the passenger side.
 
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Discussion starter · #19 ·
Hey guys...ok sorry about the late reply...the casting number on the drivers manifold
is....9994045....or it could be 8994045...or even s994045???
its pretty hard to see the first number/letter.....is this where im going wrong??
Thanks Gav
 
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