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Yes, I see the schematics. You have added a power source wire from the horn relay buss bar to VR#3 and now the battery charges.

But, with car off, the test light between the cable and bat post is dimly lit.
Unplug alt connector and light goes.
Measure F terminal on VR and battery voltage is present - should not happen.
Pull battery power from VR#3 and VR#F loses battery power - makes me think VR is bad or harness wire from VR to alt F teminal is tied to batt power, but you said it is a single wire visually, so back to VR.

WEe do both agree on the '69 AIM schematic for engine compartment could be wrong at the alt connector because blue & white wire are reversed at the alt connector verses a '68 AIM and other reference books.

Is this a true statement? Experts?
 
You're welcome. Back from dinner. Went back to the mech reg and field relay clicking with battery hooked up. Measured VR#2 and battery voltage present, the reason field relay clicks.

Removed alt connector, measured R terminal on alt and 2 volts. AHA! Battery voltage on alt BATT stud. Disconnect battery, measured forward & reverse resistance between BATT stud and R terminal and read the same value - leaky diode.

Alternator replacement coming onto the stage.
News at 6 AM Sunday. maybe.
 
You're welcome. Glad the new alt works.
What is the charging voltage across battery posts at both times - no accessories on other than ignition: (should start with a fully charged battery)
1. Right after start-up?
2. After 10-15 minutes of running at fast idle?
 
Discussion starter · #27 · (Edited)
I will check output later today. I went for a 30 min ride last night headlights lights on. Also had a nice surprise all dash lights work with a nice green glow. I was thinking that was going to be another major task. Checked this morning motor turns over strong. Put the test light inline on pos cable no light. NICE
 
Discussion starter · #28 · (Edited)
You're welcome. Glad the new alt works.
What is the charging voltage across battery posts at both times - no accessories on other than ignition: (should start with a fully charged battery)
1. Right after start-up?
2. After 10-15 minutes of running at fast idle?
12.00 right at start up
12.38 after about 10-15 mins (can't really do a fast idle lady next door goes crazy)
but dies out when I remove a batt cable
 
I would think the only difference between a gauge car and a GEN light car is the lack of the GEN light in the gauge car, all else being the same, ie, alternator and voltage regulator and engine side harness.

Gauge car has an OE ammeter installed between the horn relay buss bar and battery junction block to monitor the the miniscule voltage drop across the red wire connecting the two places mentioned. In essense, the OE ammeter is a millivoltmeter and depending the direction of current flow, shows charge or discharge.

Both cars have a resistive wire from the ACC spade/terminal of the ign switch to the firewall terminal. In a GEN light car, this res wire parallels the GEN light connected between the IGN spade/terminal and same firewall connector terminal the resistive wire of both cars.

Both cars use the same mechancial regulator, 9515, and the same design alternator, 10DN. The hook-up between the firewall to VR is the same, brown wire to VR #4, key on, battery voltage. On VR #3, sensing point, it is connected to the horn relay buss bar, or a factory crimp in the wire harness, battery voltage all the time. Both cars have VR#2 to R teminal on the alternator and VR #1 is connected to F terminal on alternator.

The field relay is used for the GEN light cars only. As soon as the alt starts converting energy, starts to work, a voltage output from the alt R terminal closes the VR#2 field relay supplying battery voltage to dim the GEN light. Now the GEN light has approximately the same voltage on both sides and for all practical purposes is out.

The field voltage for both cars is a reduced voltage from VR #4 as there is a wire wound resistor, 1 ohm?, outside of the VR on the bottom, connecting VR #4 to VR F terminal. The longer the voltage regulator relay is closed, more field given, more power out/available to the electrical system.

Am I missing anything? Experts?
 
msicks, I suggest the following action, use Post 30 as a reference:
1. Confirm wiring to/from alt and VR.
2. Also, confirm wiring from ign switch to VR #4.
3. I believe the resistance of the 24 ga wire could be 35 ohms, I haven't found any documentation on this wire, just what other members have posted. A length of larger gauge wire, say 16 ga and a 35 ohm resistor, maybe 25 watt minimum to begin with would good start, and wire in place.
4. Ensure the terminals of all connectors involved are actually making good contact onto their female counterpart. All terminals should be the same depth into the connector as viewed from the rear of the connector.
5. Disconnect the battery, BATT stud wore, and alt connector, and once again, measure the forward and reverse resistance on the alternator between BATT stud and R terminal. One direction should read, with DVM on 'diode' postion, the arrowhead with a line in front of the arrow, less than 600 ohms. Swap leads and should read infinity. If not, bad diode, again.
6. Use the mechanical VR until the problem is solved.
7. You can install between the BATT stud and the red wire just removed, a Harbour Freight 0-50 amp ammeter. They're cheap, $10. Don't really care the direction of ammeter indication at this point, just looking for movement to show current from the alt. If you use #10 ga wire between BATT stud and ammeter, ensure the gauge can not touch the engine/ground, pipe foam works great.
8. Connect battery, start engine, fast idle, and make voltage measurements across VR connector and alt plug with reference to ground, or neg battery post and report.
9. Externally charge the battery first. This action would be to remove giving a heavy load on the alt after start-up.
10. You might even hook up a terminated ground wire between the alt GRD stud and VR mounting bolt to eliminate any difference between the two chassis. Or run two wires from alt GRD stud to bat neg post and VR mounting bolt to bat neg post - better choice.
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
everett thanks again I read through this and post 30 a couple times and really don't get it.
1 By confirm wiring do you mean see that it is there or test it someway.
2 Not sure where to get a resister or what it is.
3 Not sure what infinity reads like
Everything else I think I can handle
msicks, I suggest the following action, use Post 30 as a reference:
1. Confirm wiring to/from alt and VR.
2. Also, confirm wiring from ign switch to VR #4.
3. I believe the resistance of the 24 ga wire could be 35 ohms, I haven't found any documentation on this wire, just what other members have posted. A length of larger gauge wire, say 16 ga and a 35 ohm resistor, maybe 25 watt minimum to begin with would good start, and wire in place.
4. Ensure the terminals of all connectors involved are actually making good contact onto their female counterpart. All terminals should be the same depth into the connector as viewed from the rear of the connector.
5. Disconnect the battery, BATT stud wore, and alt connector, and once again, measure the forward and reverse resistance on the alternator between BATT stud and R terminal. One direction should read, with DVM on 'diode' postion, the arrowhead with a line in front of the arrow, less than 600 ohms. Swap leads and should read infinity. If not, bad diode, again.
6. Use the mechanical VR until the problem is solved.
7. You can install between the BATT stud and the red wire just removed, a Harbour Freight 0-50 amp ammeter. They're cheap, $10. Don't really care the direction of ammeter indication at this point, just looking for movement to show current from the alt. If you use #10 ga wire between BATT stud and ammeter, ensure the gauge can not touch the engine/ground, pipe foam works great.
8. Connect battery, start engine, fast idle, and make voltage measurements across VR connector and alt plug with reference to ground, or neg battery post and report.
9. Externally charge the battery first. This action would be to remove giving a heavy load on the alt after start-up.
10. You might even hook up a terminated ground wire between the alt GRD stud and VR mounting bolt to eliminate any difference between the two chassis. Or run two wires from alt GRD stud to bat neg post and VR mounting bolt to bat neg post - better choice.
 
everett thanks again I read through this and post 30 a couple times and really don't get it.
1 By confirm wiring do you mean see that it is there or test it someway.
Use the ohmmeter to make sure Point A goes to Point B of every wire. I was thinking out loud describing the theory of operation of the charging sytem from a cold start, no alternator running. Also, explaining what I think is the difference between a gauge car and a GEN light car.
2 Not sure where to get a resister or what it is.
Radio Shack or TV repair shop. Really should do some research to find out what the resistive value actually is before getting said resistor.
3 Not sure what infinity reads like
It will not show any ohmic value on the meter - always displays a 1 on the left side of the meter readout/display.
Everything else I think I can handle
I know you can. You're welcome.
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
plan and simple great explanation I'll be on it tomorrow
Use the ohmmeter to make sure Point A goes to Point B of every wire. I was thinking out loud describing the theory of operation of the charging sytem from a cold start, no alternator running. Also, explaining what I think is the difference between a gauge car and a GEN light car.
Radio Shack or TV repair shop. Really should do some research to find out what the resistive value actually is before getting said resistor.
It will not show any ohmic value on the meter - always displays a 1 on the left side of the meter readout/display.
I know you can. You're welcome.
 
Resistance wire is 10 ohms for the length for the ign source from the steering column connector to the firewall connector.
A 10 ohm, 10 watt resistor and 14-16 ga wire should do the trick.

Be nice if another member measured their resistance wire......
 
Has anyone had a charging problem after removing factory console gauges.
Now I have no gen light and no ammeter. Are they part of the charging system.
heres something I found online I think this is what I need. I hope someone understands this. http://www.shiftworks.com/flash/amp-gauge.swf
I don't understand what they are doing in that link? new v.s. old what?

The original amp gauge in 68-69 Camaro's and 68-74 Nova's if I remember correctly was a parallel charging circuit - fully hot, un-fused and deadly if you caused a short. I was told that if I disconnected my gauge harness that I should double wrap electrical tape over the connections to prevent anything shorting across the leads. Think its black and black with white stripe leads. If they did short and didn't blow the battery it would destroy the diode in the alternator.

That said is it possible your disconnected leads are exposed and maybe resting face down on a damp carpet?

For the GEN light question I thought that a factory gauge vehicle was only lacking the actual bulb in the cluster and as a troubleshooting option you could throw a bulb in, but haven't actually looked to know that as fact. I'm sure someone here knows for sure.

As a side note, Factoryfit.com/americanautowire.com make a conversion harness that allows you to use one of their voltmeter gauges ($119.99) to replace your amp meter. Looks just like an original 68-69 saw tooth gauge only it shows volts available.

Brian
 
Shiftworks is showing the circuitry of an original gauge car, ie, Old.
The New circuit is showing hook-up of the OE gauge to perform the same function as before if owner has a starter solenoid added and a power junction block added for other accessories.
 
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