1969 z28 with a bonded title

737 · Jul 8, 2011

Under the car was very clean, no rust. We had it on the lift with the wheels off........ and I know the grill is the wrong color... The metal looks all original. There is one small patch that we found on each side of the quarters from the inside. About a 2 inch square. One small patch on the drivers quarter. We lifted the carpet and the floors are clean.

am.mscl · Jul 8, 2011

737 said:
Thanks Ray. I looked it up. Do you think it hurts the value while its bonded? What expenses do you think would occur over ownership transfers?

I don't think there would be much of a value hit if any.
I believe there is an additional bonded title fee that you have to pay at a different division of the DMV. Once you have that paperwork then you go back to the TAX Collectors office. I do not know the bonded title fee; we finally got everything cleared up with out having to do a bonded title.

737 · Jul 8, 2011

pedals

737 · Jul 8, 2011

When the car was restored. Who ever did it made it easy. The vin was taped over during painting, and then the numbers were shot with clear. I've read the debate here about posting vin numbers. Maybe I will. When they did the front ball joints they used rivets.

NHBandit · Jul 9, 2011

Factory balljoints were riveted. If the 25k miles is legitimate I would expect it to have original balljoints. If they have been replaced that's something that would make me question the mileage. Looks like a nice car that's had at least some restoration work done and some things added like the Rosewood wheel. Personally I put 0 faith in looking at pedals to tell how many miles a car has. Pedal pads are dirt cheap to replace and it's done everyday. I'd be more looking at things like the bellhousing. Is it painted completely or does it just have orange overspray up towards the engine ? Things like that will tell you the extent of the restoration because most people don't get it right. Things like the Chevelle wheels don't bother me a bit. These cars are 30+ years old. a previous owner back in the day could have put a set of Cragars on it and didn't bother to save the original Ralleys. It was just a car back then and they were just "stock wheels". They probably ended up on his buddies 57 Bel Air. Then later down the road someone decided it looked better with the Ralleys and put on what they could find. No offense but some of the younger members put too much importance on things that are "incorrect" sometimes when looking at a potential purchase. These cars have been around a LONG time at this point and some of them have been through alot. My first Camaro was a 69 I bought in 1973 with 35k miles on it. 307 Powerglide car. Light green with a green interior... Ugly combination but the price was right. First thing I did was buy a set of Cragar GT wheels (remember those ?) and then I welded the stock wheels together, 1 laying flat & 1 standing up on top of that, and made them into a pair of jackstands.

737 · Jul 9, 2011

I'm not going to assume the the 25k miles are correct. I was passing along info the current owner was told. It's not even a subject that is used during our negotiations. I didn't know if anyone on this site could tell factory rivets from reproduction ones in the picture. It was the only thing I could think of that may indicate milage. I don't really care if it has 25k or 125k.

NHBandit,
I have not seen any overspray on parts, if I recall they did paint the bellhousing completely. I wonder the same thing. If you are going to go through the trouble of a restoration on a numbers matching car, why not go all the way? Why the wrong color grill, but replicate factory inspection marks? These are small things I can work on later. Thank you for your insight.

NHBandit · Jul 9, 2011

Actually if I remember correctly the engine was painted with the bellhousing on and having just the part right next to the block painted (but not the whole thing) would be correct. Those more expert than me will jump in here soon. In any case it looks like a nice car.

Stewie · Jul 10, 2011

737 said:
I'm not going to assume the the 25k miles are correct. I was passing along info the current owner was told. It's not even a subject that is used during our negotiations. I didn't know if anyone on this site could tell factory rivets from reproduction ones in the picture. It was the only thing I could think of that may indicate milage. I don't really care if it has 25k or 125k.

NHBandit,
I have not seen any overspray on parts, if I recall they did paint the bellhousing completely. I wonder the same thing. If you are going to go through the trouble of a restoration on a numbers matching car, why not go all the way? Why the wrong color grill, but replicate factory inspection marks? These are small things I can work on later. Thank you for your insight.

I had to replace my grill in 1969 and early 1970. I got the work done with factory parts. The grills came in the correct argent color plastic. The repops only came in black for a considerable time. They are fairly fragile and do need replacing a lot. I had a woman back into me, and my wife rolled into a car at a stop light and punched the grill. With a silver car a lot of guys like the black grill. I suspect one of the owners probably replaced it and left it black. As long as the surround is sliver to match the body, and the grill stiffener, it would not be a lot to shoot it in the correct argent.
As for the wheels I had a 30,000 mile Z with the correct wheels. The car came with a set of Bias ply Goodyear wide tread GTs. Horrible to drive with. I wanted to get a set of radials and keep the Goodyears. A buddy of mine had a "spare" set of 1969 Z wheels, and I bought them. So they can be found. I was totally blown away when I took the seat out to get a popped stitch repaired, and looked at the area under the carpet. It was as red and shiny as the outside of the car. That was a dead give away that the mileage was true.

knightmoose · Jul 10, 2011

am.mscl said:
Bond title in Texas converts to a normal title after 3 years of bonding date. At any time during the 3 years if the last know owner that the car was titled in prior to bonding can reclaim the car and take it. We had to find out about this for consideration on a Vehicle.
Ray

Yes in Texas this is true but also keep in mind many of these cars are stolen every year in EL Paso and taken into mexico "ciuldad Juarez," firewall tags are switched out etc, as far as im concerned no one will ever be able to prove matching numbers with protecto plate and original paper work sold to the owner, you can still get it appraised with a build sheet ..

i think the car could have had 25k or at least a million miles on it

i have flipped my 67 odometer over at least 10 times... the main thing is you like the car and you know it isnt stolen by running the VIN with local law enforcement, and you can get her titled the rest who cares about if you love the car and want a kick *** ride.. but as others have stated id proceed with caution so many rip off artists and liars out there in the hobby.

Garfields Maro · Jul 10, 2011

737 said:
I know the engine numbers match but I could not get to the tranny vin. It is stamped on top. How does the stamp look for the trans numbers. I read it as a P9C01B.

I'm no expert but think the stamp is legit. I know that answer is not what your looking for. There's many folks here who could give a definite answer...wondering if they don't see it here in the WIW forum ?

How 'bout pics of the engine stamps ??? Those are most important of all. Maybe get some and along with these other drivetrain stamps, post them in the Tag Team Forum.

Yeah, you're probably aware of the decode but I'll give it a shot anyway...

P= Muncie 4spd
9= Model year (69)
C01 = Assembled March 1st
B= M21

It would seem to fit the cars 04C build date fine.

The Camaro Guy · Jul 10, 2011

Nice car. The question I have with all the discussion, how much can you get the car for? I suspect with all the inspection it is pricey. It sure has the right color and you can enjoy it and drive it right away. If all the legalities are fine go for it. Good luck.

737 · Jul 10, 2011

The Camaro Guy said:
Nice car. The question I have with all the discussion, how much can you get the car for? I suspect with all the inspection it is pricey. It sure has the right color and you can enjoy it and drive it right away. If all the legalities are fine go for it. Good luck.

What I'm really wondering, what is the price range for an undocumented Z that is in excellent condition? The car has zero remaining history.

Legally there is nothing shady. I know the owner who lost all of the docs, and he doesn't care about it either.

Joe Harrison · Jul 10, 2011

The real value in todays market can be questionable. It comes down to how much are you willing to spend on the car. Is it an investment? Is it something to have, drive and enjoy? Those two things can make a big differance in value.

With it not having docs and the possiblity that's it's a real z means it worth more than your basic camaro in the same shape but how much? That depends on the due diligence of the buyer to deturmin the authanticity then I will say it's worth about about 7k more than a regular Camaro of the same condidtion. If it had docs you could easy double that but again with due diligence in making sure it's all legit.

The flip side comes down to how much are you willing spend? Will you spend top $$$ for a car with no docs? Will you wait and find one with docs and pay more? All depends on what your looking for. If your happy with it and price is fair and something you can afford and be happy with then go for it.

If you question anything about it....go with your gut and walk away or attempt to buy it for what your gut feeling is telling you. If you don't you may never be happy???

1969 z28 with a bonded title

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