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rmeyer

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
once again i turn to my fellow camaro owners,

i am having a problem with my battery not being able to turn over my car.
i have an optima red top in my camaro with 10 to 1 compression.
the problem i have is that after two weeks of not starting my car i went out yesterday and it started right up then i drove my car for about 45 minutes and the voltage guage says its charging right at 14 volts then last night the wife wanted to go for a ride so i went into the garage and car would not start so i hooked up my battery charger to it and it immediately started up no problem, so my question is.
Is the battery not strong enough or could it be not a strong enough starter to spin the motor.

any help would be great
 
#2 ·
Rich,

Could you go into detail about what goes on during the non start. For example do you get a click when you turn the key or, is it slow cranking or, a good crank then stops (timing too far advanced) or, nothing at all when the key is turned;)

If the Red Top is in good shape, it is plenty strong enough. Try a load test on the battery to be sure.
 
#3 ·
I have gone thru three red tops this year alone....although partial to a faulty voltage regulator...haha.....but still two of the red tops did go bad and were replaced at little or no charge....take it to the store it was purchased from and have em test it....if bad it should be replaced at little or no cost depending on how long you have had it.....but....if it tests good then start the trouble shooting......or if you have a volt meter check to see where voltage is before, during and after start up (if it starts)....and submit more info
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
when i go to start car fuel pump and electric fans turn on in ignition then when you turn key to start position everything stays on but starter does not turn as if starter was disconnected but the minute i add any extra power (jump start, hook up charger or booster box) car starts right up.
also battery has 12volts when tested but drops down to 10.5-11 when trying to start. have not load tested battery yet will do that today, also forgot to mention that i am running a gm 1 wire alternator if that matters.

Thanks again for the help
 
#5 ·
AGM batteries take longer to recharge than a lead acid battery after sitting for some time.
If recharging an AGM from sitting, you have parallel charge a standard battery along with an AGM to get the AGM to recharge. You have to use an AGM everyday to make it work. Swap batteries with your daily driver and compare results.
 
#6 ·
Do not mix battery types between the 2 charging systems...they have different charging rates/voltages and early baterry failure occurs...1 batery gets over charged the other under charged.
This is becoming a common occurance down the work shop with people simply buying a battery off the shelf.
 
#8 ·
Everett#2390 said:
AGM batteries take longer to recharge than a lead acid battery after sitting for some time.
If recharging an AGM from sitting, you have parallel charge a standard battery along with an AGM to get the AGM to recharge. You have to use an AGM everyday to make it work. Swap batteries with your daily driver and compare results.
Click to expand...
the only time I've ever needed to put a battery in parrallel is if the AGM is way down- like 5 volts or below. Anything with 10 volts or more they have always taken a charge fine through normal methods. If the charger is showing an AGM is taking a charge, there's no reason to fool it with the parrallel battery method, and if you do need to it doesn't matter what type of battery you use, just something to get it charging, then take it off the parrallel battery in a couple hours.

That said, unless you left something on and drained it - I would be looking at the battery terminal connections first from what you have described, then the ground and the starter postive post to make sure it's all good with no problems. Really need more details on what it does when you try to start it and the battery voltage to help though.
 
#10 ·
My red top Optima gave me the first trouble I've ever had with it in 5 years. I live in Austin; I see you're in SA. I believe my problem was short trips to / from work combined with endless summer heat. I had another red top sitting in the garage and swapped it out. The sick one charged just fine, but I have yet to see if it recovered well enough to use. Perhaps that will be on my list of things to do today.
 
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#11 ·
I'm a non AGM fan. Lead-acid is what this charging system was designed around and IMHO its asking for trouble to go with a slower charging rate AGM.

You have also put an additional draw with the cooling fans - Why are they not on a thermostatic relay and only on when cooling is needed?

I would also clean all contacts and grounds as it does sound like not enough voltage is hitting the starter to kick it in.

When you converted to one wire - internal or external VR?
 
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#12 ·
I'm a non AGM fan. Lead-acid is what this charging system was designed around and IMHO its asking for trouble to go with a slower charging rate AGM.
Click to expand...
Like I said above the 2 types of batteries have different charging levels...not time but voltage...If u have a lead acid system stick with lead acid batytery and visa versa...
THE 2 ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE
One undercharges and the other over charges both result in stuff batteries
 
#13 ·
AGM batteries are lead and acid - they just have the acid tied up in an AGM mat between the lead plates instead of in a liquid state. The only real difference between many AGM batteries and a wet cell battery besides the suspended acid in the mat is a generally higher purity of lead plate. Optimas are a spiral cell AGM battery with the lead plate wound into a coil with the acidic mat in between the layers and with these you do have to be careful to not add too much voltage or it will burn the material and ruin it because the distance between the plates in the spiral is closer. Any system with a good regulator will not damage an Optima. Regular flat plate AGM batteries are not prone to damage from higher voltage more so than a wet cell battery. AGMs actually charge much more quickly than a wet cell battery because they have less internal resistance, and they are also capable of a higher rate of discharge (deliver more power) at lower states of charge than a wet cell. On my trolling batteries which are AGMs, I can run them all day hard in a high wind and they do not fade a bit. They also charge up in about half the time a wet cell does. Wet cells and half way through the day I will start losing power. On a Gen 1 Camaro with a properly working charging system there's absolutely no reason to avoid using an AGM battery and plenty of reason's too use them.
 
#14 ·
I also went thru 2 red tops and finally got a auto zone gold series. That died on me too due to a bad cell, but in tracing out the problem came to be a bad horn relay that was shorting out. Still running that auto gold series with no problems its been 8 months
 
#15 ·
Have the battery tested.
Can you hear the starter solenoid click when cranked?
 
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#16 ·
Hello, I noticed your conversation regarding our batteries and wanted to offer some assistance. rmeyer, if your battery voltage is measuring 12.0 volts with the engine off, that means your battery is more than 50% discharged. Fully-charged, our RedTops will measure about 12.6-12.8 volts. Whenever batteries are discharged below 12.4 volts and allowed to sit, sulfation begins to form, which diminishes both performance and lifespan. That makes a quality battery maintainer or quick disconnect an excellent investment for any vehicle that doesn't see regular use.

The voltage from your alternator (14 volts) sounds well within the output range we suggest as being acceptable for maintaining fully-charged batteries- about 13.7-14.7 volts. If a battery is deeply-discharged, recharging it with a battery charger is a better option than jump-starting it and using the vehicle's alternator. Most alternators are designed to maintain batteries, not recharge deeply-discharged batteries. Asking that task of an alternator can lead to a cycle of dead batteries and jump-starts, until either the battery or alternator fails. One-wire alternators are especially sensitive to good, quality grounds, so make sure your wiring is where it needs to be.

Steptoe is correct that dissimilar batteries (age, size or type) should not be mixed with each other. However, the parallel charging technique Everett described is ok to use when a battery has been deeply-discharged. As srode indicated, this technique is only needed for certain chargers that will not recognize or charge any battery that has been discharged below a specific voltage level. The parallel charging technique allows the charger to see a battery with an acceptable voltage level and deliver current to the deeply-discharged battery. That technique is also explained in this video. srode is also correct regarding AGM batteries (including Optima) being lead-acid batteries. Their low internal resistance does allow for faster charging and discharging, but we do not recommend charging our batteries at a rate higher than 10 amps.

As Dave indicated, short trips can also be problematic for any battery, if the alternator does not have enough time to replace the energy that was used during storage and starting. This could be especially problematic if the short trip involved a vehicle that runs electric fans and has the A/C, radio or other electrical accessories operating during the drive.

One other factor to consider is your parasitic draw. A typical key-off load is about 25 milliamps, but if your parasitic draw is significantly higher or your vehicle sits for extended periods of time, it could be slowly (or quickly) discharging your battery during storage. This video explains how to measure parasitic draw.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
 
#17 ·
Don't let any one tell you that an Optima Battery won't leak, they advertise you can mount them upside down, sideways, etc,,,I had a Red Top in my 68 Camaro and installed in the battery box at the right front of the Engine Compartment, one day I opened the hood and saw that the valve cover, heater housing and inner fender panel on passenger side, were scarred from Battery Acid, you also could see acid on the battery $2500 damage per the Insurance Adjustor, Took the Battery to where I bought it, and of course they would do nothing about it, I sasi fine, and reported that to the Insurance Company, and they contacted the Store who sold the Battery, and was told it was not long before they sent the Insurance Company a check.....I have never had one since, also they can brag them up all they want but I have had problems with Die Hard Battery's from Sears also...The Battery I like is a AC DELCO, have no problems with them, and in my case I went to the local Chevrolet Dealer, and payed $100 for one, and they have a great warranty that comes with them, Just thinking outloud, but that is my personal experience..........You get what you pay for, sure there are chaper batteries on the market, but the AC DELCO works for me........................
 
#18 ·
In manufacturing there will always be a bad part made time to time and thats where your QC people are to catch it....but yours sounds more like it was dropped or damaged some how IMO...but I could be wrong.
Redtop in mine has been great so far (trunk mounted) :D
 
#19 ·
It might be something as simple as really cleaning the posts and cables. It can all look good but I have had cars that would not start but as soon as I put charger on it does. Actually the clamping force of the charger clamps was making the connection work between the cable and post. Not saying that is your problem but if you haven't already I would clean the post and the cable to where they both look like new metal. Costs nothing.
 
#20 ·
As Dave indicated, short trips can also be problematic for any battery, if the alternator does not have enough time to replace the energy that was used during storage and starting.
Click to expand...
I have had this for decades....
No extras ....but every 6 to 8 weeks I put the battery on charge over night becuse if I go for about 3 months and its a cold morning frost on the ground, there is enough juice in the battery to turn the engine over but not fire it up on the !2V hei (pionts ballasat would and wasnt an issue)...this then requires a quick short shot of engine start.
Most of the driving is short distance less than 2 miles stop start at around 1000 to 1200 rpms... The camaro hardley gets time to warm up.
I dont notice the battery getting down....OH and Im running nearly 11:1 compression on a very low duration /overlap cam so no blead off....which requires a low intial advance (hi idle)
 
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OptimaJim
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