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chevysrule454

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I looked into the 555 BBC that A.R. performance sold me for $7200 on ebay, and thought that was a great price. They had two on spring sale and I bought one of them. Then I googled A.R.Performanc,(yes I know, should of done that first DUH!!!) and jumped right into several forums of probubly 80% of the people had very negative things to say about them, and the engines they bought. Everything from shipping misshaps ,to motors blowing up, with no recourse allowed by AR. This scared the S**T out of me as I saved for a very long time on permanent dissability to finally afford my dream engine, and now cant sleep at night. With that said, has anyone on here bought an AR engine, and how was there experience...come on guys I need some good news here. My 555 comes in a week , and the bad part is it probubly wont be run for at least a year as the rest of my 69 slowly gets restored.I want to believe in this small machine shop, but its hard when mostly all u here is BAAADDD!!!
Any reassurance would go along ways hearing it from u guys!!!:eek::eek::eek:
 
#2 ·
If it's this engine:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/180647066164?item=180647066164&viewitem=&vxp=mtr#shId
They say it's a "select high tin block" which sounds like a stock block, and bored 0.030-0.060". To get a 555 with a 4.25" stroke you need a little over 4.550" bore. That's 0.300" overbore on a 454 block or 0.085" on a 502 block which you would assume they use so right there the ad is incorrect or lying in order to prevent worry from someone who doesn't do the math. They do not say whether the block has been sonic checked. Personally I have never seen a bore that size sold by a reputable shop on anything other than an aftermarket block.

If that link is indeed the engine, it's clearly written that the engine is sold as-is and with no return policy. Curious as to why you'd buy something like that when you're a year away from install?
 
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Discussion starter · #3 · (Edited)
When I asked about wether or not the engine was a stock 8.1l they said it was indeed a 502 block bored and stroked. As far as warentey they said one year with no indacation of mileage. His words...(They arnt going in a taxi now are they). And your right These blocks are all new to me and I didnt do the math. What do they to do to get 555 out of a 502 block?


Update... just got off the phone with Mark @ AR racing, and for an hour, he put my mind at ease. Great guy to talk to, very polite and understanding, as I put him through the ringer. I drilled him on as many complaints that I had written down,from people on numerous forums, and even some I didnt write down. He didnt just tell me what I wanted to hear, he examined and explained every point I had and I wasnt pussy footin around .He has had a tough time with alot of poor engines that have gone out in the past, and he told the truth and explained all of them. Alot of shipping misshaps, and he fought and resolved almost all of them on the buyer's behalf. His words...(There's no money for us on shipping , that all goes to the shippers, yet I will sit on the phone for 1-2 hours a day fighting for overpriced shipping ,that the companies jacked up after the fact). My engine plans to ship out this Wednesday, and I feel reasured I wont have any quality problems.If I do ,I feel reasured that Mark will take care of it. With that said, it is still hard to dismiss all that I have read. One truth though that helps is that "You cant please everyone". Im sure that every machine shop has its horror stories (its human nature to make mistakes) its how those stories are resolved that to me, makes a buisness honorable.
 
#4 ·
The add they posted was the 'contract' that you relied on to effect this purchase - If that 'contract' (or any further contact or information from them) contains "factual" errors them you can have the transaction voided - usually by 'eBain' and PayPal - or by a court if it comes to that.
How did you pay?
I would suggest you refuse the delivery if you have any proof the 'facts' of their ad do not match the 'truth' of what is delivered.

I would further suggest that when buying a high dollar drivetrain part (engine/trans/rear axle) you only do business locally or with well-known and 'vetted' suppliers ...
 
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#6 ·
Cancel the purchase and ask for your money to be refunded if possible.
My cost (I have a very competitive parts business) on the least expensive import parts to build a "decent" 555 is almost 7000.000. These (crate motor) guys are using seconds, rejects and the lowest priced chinese parts they can find with zero regard to quality. Their assemblies are minimal with no attention to any detail. There's no way they can sell this engine at any margin of profit, any other way. Trust me when I say, you will absolutely get what you pay for.
 
#7 ·
just my 2 cents--find the very best machine shop that you can deal with in person--people at the track will usually be pointing at that same place --being street r strip--just for grins--what heads are on the motor--i couldnt see identification
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
One thing I have noticed on many forums, not just this one, is that bad news draws people to forums, like moths to a flame. I am not here defending anyone, but it seems when one person makes a mistake, 100 people will pounce. Somthing else Iv noticed, when one person does somthing good, they are thanked and forgotten almost immediately. No wonder companies that make mistakes are barried before they can ever correct themselves. This AR racing in question has a 100% feedback. Gee that doesnt sound like the fly by night slime balls (and we all know who we are talkin about), that take what they can get and move on. These guys have made mistakes, admittedly,but must be doin somthing right if for the last year not one person has refuted there standing on ebay.Hey maybe Im out to lunch on all this, but I refuse to let a few discruntled stories ruin a company that has obviously subsantially improved there product.I will NOT ask for my money back.If we listened to every malcontented person we encounterd, no one would take any risks on anything.
 
#9 ·
chevysrule454 said:
One thing I have noticed on many forums, not just this one, is that bad news draws people to forums, like moths to a flame. I am not here defending anyone, but it seems when one person makes a mistake, 100 people will pounce. Somthing else Iv noticed, when one person does somthing good, they are thanked and forgotten almost immediately. No wonder companies that make mistakes are barried before they can ever correct themselves. This AR racing in question has a 100% feedback. Gee that doesnt sound like the fly by night slime balls (and we all know who we are talkin about), that take what they can get and move on. These guys have made mistakes, admittedly,but must be doin somthing right if for the last year not one person has refuted there standing on ebay.Hey maybe Im out to lunch on all this, but I refuse to let a few discruntled stories ruin a company that has obviously subsantially improved there product.I will NOT ask for my money back.If we listened to every malcontented person we encounterd, no one would take any risks on anything.
Click to expand...
Hey, you're the one who asked. Now you don't like the answers, so we're the bad guys here? LOL...
Did you forget your first post?

Then I googled A.R.Performanc,(yes I know, should of done that first DUH!!!) and jumped right into several forums of probubly 80% of the people had very negative things to say about them, and the engines they bought. Everything from shipping misshaps ,to motors blowing up, with no recourse allowed by AR.

You think all those people were making that stuff up?

"A fool and his money are soon parted"....

You can't say you weren't warned. I don't see anyone here who has any "malcontent", just some wisdom and experience offering friendly free advice. There is one thing for sure in this business...you get what you pay for. Very seldom more, but very often less.
I actually took the time to read the entire add they have on Ebay. Next time you talk to them, ask them what size the ARP Wave Lock bolts are in thier Eagle rods.
Here's a hint:
BB Chev Eagle rods; either I beam or H beam, don't use bolts, they use capscrews.
I found 99% of what they say is typical advertizing BS and would be hard to prove...or disprove. I saw three pictures of two different engines. The rest was a alot of meaningless blah blah blah that anyone could say.

If you think you know enough about engines and what it takes to build even a half way decent one that you can trust these guys, go for it. You had one conversation with someone who told you exactly what you wanted to hear. What the heck did you expect? :confused: You have google results that aren't made up, and you have the audacity to ignore and in fact badmouth the advice given here, when you asked for it. No one here has a dog in this fight except to not see you -or anyone else in this "sport"- throw your money away, especially hard earned money, on junk. One thing I learned a long time ago...if you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question. You got the truth, deal with it. Or not.
Rant over.
 
#10 ·
Have to agree with Scott.

First: I really hope the engine works out for you.

Second: You are in the wrong with your last post. You came here with a post second guessing your purchase. You told everyone in that post that 80% of what you could find about the builder was bad.

Third: The ad for the engine is inaccurate. You cannot get 555ci from a 0.060" overbore 502 and 4.25" stroke crank. Period. Additionally the ad is all you have in writing and clearly states: paypal disclaimer[our products] are sold for hi-performance use and are sold as is
Will they give you a written warranty? And if so will that warranty be clearly written with an installation window that states the warranty term will not begin until the engine is installed and fired? From the engine description and clever wording, it clearly will not be dyno tuned and most likely not even fired by the builder. This has become the sad standard on lower priced crate engines.

Fourth: Ebay feedback percentage is based on the most recent 12 months. They have 47 sales in that time period. A majority of those feedbacks (and most all feedbacks) are of the "engine looks great, can't wait to put it in" etc. There is a time limit on when you can add to and edit feedback so in most cases you would never see if there was a problem later on.

Fifth: They are not a BBB accredited business but do have a rating of B+.


I'm sorry that you did not get the reassurance you wanted but you didn't give anyone much to work with right off the bat. Good luck with your purchase, and I mean that sincerely.
 
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Discussion starter · #11 ·
Well guys thankyou for all your replys, and I am sorry for saying what I did. I was just sick at the thought that I was wrong. Being on dissability for the last 10 years and saving for this engine for almost all of that time made me ill at the thought that I just threw away all that $ . Needless to say I got no sleep. I was desperatly looking for SOMEONE to say I was right.
Mark @ AR racing has refunded all my $ .As far as the customer edicate that he has shown to date has been impecable, and I truely hope I didnt make another mistake...I will never truely know.
With that said, I am still looking so ...where do I go? I live in Northern Canada, and my options up here are drastically reduced. I want a fully fordged bottom ended bbc, QUALITY allum heads, and 600hp, but dont want to spend more than $8000. I know I know probubly not gunna happen, and thats why AR looked soooo appealing in the first place.
 
#12 ·
Darren, my advice is to save the money until the car is complete and the engine is the last thing you need. While there are some places that will give you an installation window for your warranty activation, it's not always guaranteed.

If you want quality aluminum heads, that engine was not for you but you gotta pay for that especially with a big block. It obviously had the Pro-Comp heads which can go either way depending on who does the final build on them. However, the power numbers they had listed indicated that they were pretty bad....a decent head should get you at least 1.25 lb ft per ci which means that 555 should've been making around 700 lb ft and hp will be dependent on power band. Their number of 612 ft lb was showing 1.1 lb ft per ci.

Search the forums for "vortecpro" who is in Colorado and ask about his 496's. I'd think you could get into a dyno tuned 600hp 496 for under $8k easy....could probably get it set up with carb and distributor for that.
 
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Discussion starter · #13 ·
Well this whole "custom built BBC crate engine" has left a very bad taste in my mouth. I think a short block zz502 from jeggs, along with Edelbrocks top end kit, ( vivtor intake and 24 degree rec port heads and a hotter cam) that puts out 611 hp/574 TQ, is seeming to be the least worrysome crate option I can find.I can definately deal with that...no more as***les trying to take the $ I have worked so hard to accumulate.Any tioughts?
 
#14 ·
listen to steiners advice and check out Vortecpro's website.
 
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Discussion starter · #15 ·
Please dont get me wrong, Im done dissin anyone here, but this guy seems just as "Too good to be true" as AR racing. You may know of him personally (or not) but to me he's not making any better offers than AR was. 700HP with only 496ci and iron heads? Unless he is some kind of miracle worker, or it requires a 4500 rpm stall converter, to me his offer is a suspicious as the last guy.And I wont contact him (and let another guy tell me what I want to hear) untill I have beat this topic to death here. What makes this guy's engines worth so little, with such high #'s for hp and TQ? Im sure u can see my point, I almost lost my engine 's life savings to that shiester @ AR, I dont plan to make that mistake twice. As they said on "Transformers"..."Impress me...Impress me...impress me"!!!...lol
 
#16 ·
i think your on the right track now darren--for the money, there is better builds-but for what your doing i think you will like it and 3 times better---just for the record -those pro comps cant support that many inches and the worst heads on the market-thats coming from someone that has them on one of his motors
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
Well again I put my foot in my mouth. I googled "vortecpro" and I just read a very informative investigative report on vortecpro, and I must say, his attention to detail is impressive to say the least. ( More than I can say for the first 3 pages of nightmarish comments when I googled AR...I stopped reading at that point but there were more)I previously commented on how he could get 700 hp on iron heads!! Well now I know, and he does it well.I will give him a call tomorrow, and I will keep u all informed.


Thanx Guys
 
#18 ·
chevysrule454 said:
Please dont get me wrong, Im done dissin anyone here, but this guy seems just as "Too good to be true" as AR racing. You may know of him personally (or not) but to me he's not making any better offers than AR was. 700HP with only 496ci and iron heads? Unless he is some kind of miracle worker, or it requires a 4500 rpm stall converter, to me his offer is a suspicious as the last guy.And I wont contact him (and let another guy tell me what I want to hear) untill I have beat this topic to death here. What makes this guy's engines worth so little, with such high #'s for hp and TQ? Im sure u can see my point, I almost lost my engine 's life savings to that shiester @ AR, I dont plan to make that mistake twice. As they said on "Transformers"..."Impress me...Impress me...impress me"!!!...lol
Click to expand...
LOL...it's tough when you have to rely on other's to steer you in the right direction. I apologise if I came down a little too hard on you. I understand your frustration.
Now, as for Mark Jones aka Vortecpro...I know Mark. I talk to Mark on a regular basis. Mark and I are both engine builders and I can tell you he's the real deal. No if's and's or but's. His engines run the numbers to back the power claims. His attention to detail is second to none and you won't get a better value for your dollar, anywhere, ever. Mark's a no nonsense kinda guy... he won't tell what you want to hear, he'll tell you the way it is, like it or not. ;) You're making a very good choice, if you go that direction, and you won't be sorry. :thumbsup:
 
#19 ·
Eessshhh this thread turned quick.

I agree with Scott though. To do a complete carb to pan 540ci+ our cost is roughly what he is selling it for, and im the largest builder in the world...with big parts discounts. I have seen engines like this come in for us to go through...and like Scott says, defective blocks bought cheap, chinese heads, cheap internals etc....just not worth it on such a big purchase.

You cant go wrong with VortecPro, he builds great engines at an affordable price and has a great reputation.

I have warehouses in Canada and sell that way often. Shoot me a PM if you want some options.
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
Well got off my fanny and gave Mark @ vortecpro a call.Must say first, a very easy guy to talk to, and he seems to know what he's talkin about.He has steered me to the 496/650+ BBC with the iron heads, due to the fact that the closest track is 22, yes 22 hours away, and not only will it never see a track for the rest of its life, but it will be given to my daughter on her 16'th. I was pointin toward the 700hp 496, but my daughter Im thinkin is not goin to want the hastle of settin valves.(among other reasons, not very street friendly).This will be my next (and hopfully my last) engine.
So...thanx for all the guys, even after bein brow beaten (my bad) that stuck it through,and all theire guidence...Thank you!!:beers:
 
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