I bought a basket case,partially restored 68,finished project with a 406 and a 350 turbo.13yrs later I am changing to 4 speed,and find the cross shaft does not line up to pivot ball in block!do I have wrong frame to engine stands?I have over an inch of clearance with a HEI Dist to firewall?where can I find #'s for the frame stands and pictures?
Auto to manual swap
ks3racing
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I bought a basket case,partially restored 68,finished project with a 406 and a 350 turbo.13yrs later I am changing to 4 speed,and find the cross shaft does not line up to pivot ball in block!do I have wrong frame to engine stands?I have over an inch of clearance with a HEI Dist to firewall?where can I find #'s for the frame stands and pictures?
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Re: auto to manual swap
Big Block frame stands move the engine forward 3/4" and 1/2" to the passenger side. Is that what you have or is the pivot ball in the wrong spot on your engine ? 1" clearance with an HEI does say that your engine is too far forward.
Big Block frame stands move the engine forward 3/4" and 1/2" to the passenger side. Is that what you have or is the pivot ball in the wrong spot on your engine ? 1" clearance with an HEI does say that your engine is too far forward.
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Re: auto to manual swap
It is hard to tell with the engine in the car. Like the last post see if your engine is sitting offset to pass side. Small block and big block look alot alike. The only ones that I know right off the bat are the cowel induction small block ones "they have 4 spot weld looking dimples on the top of each one". Placement of the heater core may help, big block came out of the box, and small block came out of the firewall. If it comes out of the heaterbox they might be big block. Might look in to a big block pivit ball I think it came on a plate bolted to the block instead of screwing the ball in to the block. This might be a fix without taking the engine out. I had a camaro with a plate with the ball and it worked. I did not put it on , it was on when I got the car. Not sure if it was big block, but I have seen that set up on some.
It is hard to tell with the engine in the car. Like the last post see if your engine is sitting offset to pass side. Small block and big block look alot alike. The only ones that I know right off the bat are the cowel induction small block ones "they have 4 spot weld looking dimples on the top of each one". Placement of the heater core may help, big block came out of the box, and small block came out of the firewall. If it comes out of the heaterbox they might be big block. Might look in to a big block pivit ball I think it came on a plate bolted to the block instead of screwing the ball in to the block. This might be a fix without taking the engine out. I had a camaro with a plate with the ball and it worked. I did not put it on , it was on when I got the car. Not sure if it was big block, but I have seen that set up on some.
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7,796 Posts
Re: auto to manual swap
Measure with a tape measure, from the air cleaner stud to each fender to see if the engine is offset. If it is close to on center (same measurement) They are small block mounts. If your measurements are 1" different, you have big block stands.
You may be able to cure the problem with a big block z-bar and a frame mounted ball stud.
Measure with a tape measure, from the air cleaner stud to each fender to see if the engine is offset. If it is close to on center (same measurement) They are small block mounts. If your measurements are 1" different, you have big block stands.
You may be able to cure the problem with a big block z-bar and a frame mounted ball stud.
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Re: auto to manual swap
The ball stud was in the block for all 67-69 Camaro's. I think they just came out with the bolt on when an engine from an automatic car was swapped in.
That's a new one... those are actually 1969 302/350 frame mounts. Cowl induction had nothing to do with the mounts, it was the 8" harmonic balancer that required different frame mounts. In 1967 and 68 they used different engine mounts for this. These were not interlocking mounts and they switched to new interlocking mounts on high performance small blocks and big blocks in 1969.
The ball stud was in the block for all 67-69 Camaro's. I think they just came out with the bolt on when an engine from an automatic car was swapped in.
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Tom my bad. I thought that the 69 302 and 350 " COWL INDUCTION only " needed the frame mounts with the four dimples , so that the cowl induction air cleaner gasket sealed against the hood. I'm still learning this is my first Z and it was missing alot of parts when I saved it from the crusher. All of my other Camaro s wer big block cars. I guess that the guy at Ricks just took me for a ride, I did'nt know any better. Thanks I'm learning new things about these cars every day. Sorry if my post confused any one.
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You can get stands from Ricks, NPD, Camaro Central, Clasic Industries or just check ebay.
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No problem... just for your info.
The interlocking "tall and Narrow" engine mounts were the Hi-perf mounts. (302,350's and 396).
The non-interlocking "short and wide" engine mounts were the Lo-perf mounts used on 307's and 327's.
The Energy Suspension poly "short and wide" engine mounts are interlocking.
The interlocking "tall and Narrow" engine mounts were the Hi-perf mounts. (302,350's and 396).
The non-interlocking "short and wide" engine mounts were the Lo-perf mounts used on 307's and 327's.
The Energy Suspension poly "short and wide" engine mounts are interlocking.
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If you change the framestands you might have to change the transmission crossmember and the radiator shroud too.
A simpler solution would be to use a big block z-bar and mounting.
How much do you want to change ?
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8,304 Posts
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Also, FWIW, big block Z-bar mounts to subframe in exactly the same place and way as the small block unit, and also fits exactly the same (roughly parallel to firewall) as a small block bar. The BBC Z-bar is a bit longer and the lower arm is a bit different. But otherwise, the block side pivot ball is in roughly the same position when installed on the correct mounts for either engine (likewise for L6, too).
So, there is a big block z-bar; there is no special mounting... A big block bar in your current setup probably will not even reach the block pivot ball, and if it did, it would be crooked in at least the horizontal plane (= bind city).
So, there is a big block z-bar; there is no special mounting... A big block bar in your current setup probably will not even reach the block pivot ball, and if it did, it would be crooked in at least the horizontal plane (= bind city).
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Sorry, Eric you are misinformed on the z-bar.
The small block z bar is mounted to the frame by a small stud.
![Image]()
The big Block z bar is longer and there is a pivot ball on the frame and engine, allowing the z bar to sit at an angle due to the engine pivot ball being 3/4" farther forward.
![Image]()
![Image]()
The small block z bar is mounted to the frame by a small stud.
The big Block z bar is longer and there is a pivot ball on the frame and engine, allowing the z bar to sit at an angle due to the engine pivot ball being 3/4" farther forward.
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I am not going to bother digging out the OE SBC z bar in my shed because I can't lift the crate it's in while on crutches. But 100% it has a pivot on frame side.
Look at HB City SBC z bar. Pivot on frame side. I trust their part over Ricks/Eckler import crap. http://www.heartbeatcitycamaro.com/store/product/17649/Clutch-bellcrank-all-SB/
Look at Year One SBC z bar. Pivot on frame side. https://www.yearone.com/Product/1967-81-camaro/ru1806
I would almost bet that the "fixed" SBC bar end in your pic is just a shipping plug not removed for the photo.
I wish you would stop with the misinfo on BBC installs, but I guess I am doomed to refight the battles as they come up. If a BBC bar was crooked like you say, it would not fit in the same space that the SBC bar does.
It would also be likely to bind; think about what you keep saying. Are the upper and lower linkage holes on BBC unit drilled perpendicular, or at an angle? Every piece that attaches (upper clutch rod, lower swivel for SBC, lower rod for BBC) all go through holes at 90 degree angle and get a simple pin to secure. Are the arms off the tube twisted to allow these components to connect this way? NO!
Both z bars mount the same way; the BBC z bar installed on a correctly installed BBC is not visibly cocked forward. It is same alignment as SBC and L6 bars.
If you can't read the Year One and HBC descriptions and realize you are wrong and don't replace your above image with the shipping plug installed to keep the frame side pivot ball stud in place on the ride over in a giant container ship, well then I give up.
Look at HB City SBC z bar. Pivot on frame side. I trust their part over Ricks/Eckler import crap. http://www.heartbeatcitycamaro.com/store/product/17649/Clutch-bellcrank-all-SB/
Look at Year One SBC z bar. Pivot on frame side. https://www.yearone.com/Product/1967-81-camaro/ru1806
I would almost bet that the "fixed" SBC bar end in your pic is just a shipping plug not removed for the photo.
I wish you would stop with the misinfo on BBC installs, but I guess I am doomed to refight the battles as they come up. If a BBC bar was crooked like you say, it would not fit in the same space that the SBC bar does.
It would also be likely to bind; think about what you keep saying. Are the upper and lower linkage holes on BBC unit drilled perpendicular, or at an angle? Every piece that attaches (upper clutch rod, lower swivel for SBC, lower rod for BBC) all go through holes at 90 degree angle and get a simple pin to secure. Are the arms off the tube twisted to allow these components to connect this way? NO!
Both z bars mount the same way; the BBC z bar installed on a correctly installed BBC is not visibly cocked forward. It is same alignment as SBC and L6 bars.
If you can't read the Year One and HBC descriptions and realize you are wrong and don't replace your above image with the shipping plug installed to keep the frame side pivot ball stud in place on the ride over in a giant container ship, well then I give up.
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Whoa ! Eric, buddy take a deep breath ! This is not a competition ! We are both here to help people. I checked out your links and you are correct that those also show a pivot ball. I am not sure if the one I pictured just has a shipping plug though. Maybe somebody could help us answer that one. I was led to believe that all the small blocks were "fixed" and evidently that is not the case !
I will admit when I am wrong and I never claimed to know everything ! Just explain when I am wrong and we can go on ! I am not sure what else you think I am telling people that is not correct, but let me know !
I will admit when I am wrong and I never claimed to know everything ! Just explain when I am wrong and we can go on ! I am not sure what else you think I am telling people that is not correct, but let me know !
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The small block is also a pivot ball, it is just shipped pre-installed, so it looks liek a "fixed" stud...Leared this when I did my manual conversion a couple years ago...
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Correct. It would not work with a pivot on both ends.
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Huh ? We just established that there IS a pivot ball on each end !
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