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Blow my fuse..

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#46 ·
Don't most modern cars use fusible links for the starter circuit, and battery connection to the fuse box? Similar to using a fuse. I'd have some sort of protection though from the battery to the starter. Your asking for the potential of an electrical fire if a 200 amp fuse was blowing by not using something.
 
#48 ·
Vega$69 said:
I read a lot of threads where people way overthink and eventually over complicate to the point they end up sitting on the side of the road more often.
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This…. Basic reliability theory states the more components in a system, the less reliable it will be.…

Don
 
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#49 ·
dhutton said:
This…. Basic reliability theory states the more components in a system, the less reliable it will be.…

Don
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It's always a risk trade off adding safety features to any system. Garage door openers down force limits and sensors for something in the pathway, GFI's in home wiring, thermal switches in flush mount light cans etc. The question is which risk more acceptable to the user when the government hasn't required a standard to be in place. Most of our classics don't have ABS and probably none have air bags and we accept that risk because it's complicated and expensive, but a fuse or breaker in main power cable is cheap insurance if it makes sense to the user.

Top 10 Causes of Car Fires
 
Discussion starter · #50 ·
Vega$69 said:
I read a lot of threads where people way overthink and eventually over complicate to the point they end up sitting on the side of the road more often.
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Guilty as charged
 
#51 · (Edited)
I have said it before and I’ll say it again. If you aren’t able to correctly and safely route a battery cable then maybe you should hire someone who can. 🙂. Same goes for your fuel and brake lines….

I have also seen evidence that a lot of folks are unable to correctly size a fuse… 😬

Don
 
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Discussion starter · #52 ·
dhutton said:
I have said it before and I’ll say it again. If you aren’t able to correctly and safely route a battery cable then maybe you should hire someone who can. 🙂. Same goes for your fuel and brake lines….

I have also seen evidence that a lot of folks are unable to correctly size a fuse… 😬

Don
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Ouch
 
#53 ·
Just 1 More said:
I've done a few cruises since and So far, it's been flawless. Maybe it's my imagination but, it seems to start faster and stronger without that fuse set up in there... idk
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Yep, hard telling but I wonder, would it start even faster with even less components like not having your cable going through your separate solenoid but using the solenoid on the starter if could be setup that way.
 
#54 ·
Just 1 More said:
So I take the Camaro to a cruis-in tonight, everything was just fine, left there and stopped at the grocery store, came out and tried to start it and it was dead. Blew the main fuse at the battery. Replaced the fuse and started right up. Drove home, parked in the garage, shut it off, tried to crank it back up, blew the fuse again.
The fuse blows immediately as the starter engages as if the starter is suddenly drawing too much amps. It's a 200amp glass block style. It's been just fine the past 2 years that it's been set up this way so i'm at a loss as to why all of a sudden there's an issue. looks like i'm trouble shooting this weekend
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jimsl78 said:
Do you have or have access to an Amprobe clamp on amp meter? I would connect the starter cable directly to the battery (while testing) and check your cranking amperage. My guess is the starter is pulling higher than 200 amps. Just wondering... is your starter a gear reduction type? I understand they draw less amps than the OEM type.
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Any electric motor whether it be a starter motor, window or wiper motor will show zero resistance with an ohm meter across its motor terminals. When voltage is applied to get the motor to spin it will draw a large amount of current called rush in current. This rush in current will get the motor to start spinning and will stay high for less than 1000 milliseconds (1 second) until counter electromotive force begins reducing the current as the engine begins cranking. This rush in current for most V-8 gasoline engine starter motors is 500-800 amps for a good operating starter and will reduce to approximately 175- 275 amps. The actual cranking amp pattern will fluctuate as each cylinder comes up on compression. The compression fluctuations will usually be around 30 amps. All of this is best captured with a scope. In a healthy circuit, rush in current is 60% more than operating current. So, if you had an operating current of 200 amps, at least 600 amps of rush in current would be expected.
With all of this said, a 200amp fuse in the starting is not advised. Depending on the type of fuse it will carry a certain amount of current for a short time like I explained with rush in current of the starter motor being less than 1 second in most cases. If the starter is taking longer to begin to spin this may be overloading this fuse for too long and cause it to open. High amp fuses like this are normally left for protection of main fuse boxes, Amps and alternator circuits and not main battery cables for the starter circuits. If the engine and starter sound good when cranking, I would take the fuse out of the circuit and put in a battery disconnect switch if your concerned with say a battery cable shorting around a header pipe. If this fuse was set to protect other items, you should find out what those items are and protect them appropriately with new fuse protection circuits. My guess is the starter is drawing a little more amperage than before like when the engine is warm and this fuse is right on the edge of its limits and should be taken out of the circuit. Hope this helps.
 
#55 ·
Wingman53,

If you had let's say a vehicle that needed a 12' battery cable run from a trunk mounted battery to an underhood starter, what gauge cable would you suggest to be run and then what fuse would you suggest on that cable ?.

I know there will be variables such as does the engine have a stock starter or is a gear reduction style being run and then another variable would be what amount of cranking compression ratio is the starter overcoming on the motor but what would be a good starting base to work off of ?.

I know some people think a master on off switch might be enough protection should a short occur but if no one is there to turn off the switch if needed, what good is it ?. I hate to think worst case but should an accident occur that might short a battery cable to ground and then what might happen no matter how well it is run is ideally we need something that works automatically and a setup that when cranking over a motor does not produce nuisance trips.

Jim
 
#56 · (Edited)
SOA-Nova said:
Wingman53,

If you had let's say a vehicle that needed a 12' battery cable run from a trunk mounted battery to an underhood starter, what gauge cable would you suggest to be run and then what fuse would you suggest on that cable ?.

I know there will be variables such as does the engine have a stock starter or is a gear reduction style being run and then another variable would be what amount of cranking compression ratio is the starter overcoming on the motor but what would be a good starting base to work off of ?.

I know some people think a master on off switch might be enough protection should a short occur but if no one is there to turn off the switch if needed, what good is it ?. I hate to think worst case but should an accident occur that might short a battery cable to ground and then what might happen no matter how well it is run is ideally we need something that works automatically and a setup that when cranking over a motor does not produce nuisance trips.

Jim
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1/0 is plenty to run a starter and not heat up. You shouldn't ever be cranking more than 10 seconds straight without waiting 30+ seconds for the starter to cool off anyway.

BlueSea makes breaker switches for marine operation which are slow to trip which is great in an application like that and you could use it to power down once in a while but I don't think breakers are really designed to be used on a regular basis for on / off. The 187 series goes up to 200 amps and the trip range at 10 seconds starts at 200% of the rated capacity so you could use that an protect for short to ground and never trip during the start cycle. To me, this is perfect in this application, easy to reset so you won't get stranded if it trips unless it fails. It should be fine well above the expected rush load at start up. Maximum capacity for protection without damage is 5000 amps.
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#57 ·
A 0-gauge (1/0 AWG) power and ground cable should work well for your application. I understand your concern with cable shorting in the case of an accident but that is very unlikely. I don't know of any automotive manufacturer that has any type of current protection going down to the starter from the battery even if they are trunk or under seat mounted. That said, if you were to install some type of fuse protection, a 300-amp fuse should work well to run your starter. If you were to install such a fuse, I would verify what current would actually open the fuse and how long it takes at that level to open. The only other thing I could think of is if you installed a Ford type starter solenoid near the battery and switched it on from the passenger compartment when you wanted to engage the starter. It would add a second switched connection point in the circuit though.
 
#59 ·
I had posted about some cars that I have found that I believe to have OEM fuses on the starter cables (post 20) and wondered what other vehicles might also have fuses on the starter cable so I got onto a GM website and on the 2023 Chevrolet Colorado (Unknown drivetrain) it has a 400A fuse protecting the starter cable off of the battery. I'll look further on that site and chances are there is more than just the 2023 Colorado that has a battery cable fuse. Seems tome I also saw the Silverado's also having a 400A starter cable fuse also.

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Jim
 
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