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350 Engine Build For Street Or Strip

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Discussion starter · #21 ·
The
Larry Madsen said:
I'll add: Engine building is pretty much one compromise after another trying to end up with the best "total package" for your intended purpose.

The harder you push to the 11 second build the further you will move away from a well-mannered "street engine".

Depending on just how much street use you have in mind ... there will likely be a considerable compromise someplace.

Edited to add: Hopefully you don't end up with neither of the goals met. ;)
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The plan was to build a very mild engine that would be just as happy in a truck with a stock converter as it would in my Camaro running down the track.
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
FbodyMike said:
In addition to the above, you'll need close to 500hp peak to get in the low 11s . I don't see it with that combo unless you're running nitrous. Naturally aspirated, a .060" over 350 would need at least 6500rpm along with all the matching parts. That includes a camshaft with more duration and better heads.

What's your compression ratio? Are the heads ported? Since you already have the cam, at least upgrade to 1.6 ratio rockers. 1 7/8 headers x-pipe with 3" through the mufflers (you can run 2.5" tailpipes out the mufflers for deeper tone, better torque, and a slight reduction in dB). Make sure the 850 has annular boosters to help the carb signal. And really, you should be going with a larger camshaft like the Comp 12-443-8 and 11:1 compression.
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I would NEVER run any type of power adder. You're right about the 6500 RPM actually its closer to 6700 in the lights. The heads are ported, but you can only do so much with them. 1.6 rockers were tested on the dyno, much to my surprise there was no HP gain. A 750 was also tested on the dyno and the track, a 850 down leg made more HP and was faster at the track. 1 5/8 headers were used. Dyno sheets posted. Maybe you can explain your thought process behind 500 HP to run low 11s @ 3165 pounds?
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#23 ·
IMO The easiest way to add noticeable power to a 350 (in the manner you suggest) would be to begin by adding about 33 CID. 😜
 
#26 ·
vortecpro said:
I would NEVER run any type of power adder. You're right about the 6500 RPM actually its closer to 6700 in the lights. The heads are ported, but you can only do so much with them. 1.6 rockers were tested on the dyno, much to my surprise there was no HP gain. A 750 was also tested on the dyno and the track, a 850 down leg made more HP and was faster at the track. 1 5/8 headers were used. Dyno sheets posted. Maybe you can explain your thought process behind 500 HP to run low 11s @ 3165 pounds? View attachment 324921 View attachment 324922 View attachment 324923
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Am I missing something or are the Dyno Sheets from 1980?
 
#30 ·
did we ever discuss the rest of the car? what about trans, converter, rear gear ratio, suspension upgrades? that engine combination doesn't look like a low 11 second combo in a Camaro. maybe in a super light weight something. i know you posted a curb weight. i don't see low 11's maybe mid 12's. what's the rest of the car combo? obviously all this debating is happening after the fact and you've already completed the build, had it on a dyno and had the car together and at the track............what did it run?
 
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#31 ·
patman2 said:
I’ll guess:


1.43 60 foot
6.87 660 foot
10.89 @ 120 MPH
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if that engine combo runs those numbers i should be running low 9's on the motor. no way
 
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Discussion starter · #32 ·
Vega$69 said:
Ok. I'm Guessing best time is 12.2
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bhodgdon400 said:
did we ever discuss the rest of the car? what about trans, converter, rear gear ratio, suspension upgrades? that engine combination doesn't look like a low 11 second combo in a Camaro. maybe in a super light weight something. i know you posted a curb weight. i don't see low 11's maybe mid 12's. what's the rest of the car combo? obviously all this debating is happening after the fact and you've already completed the build, had it on a dyno and had the car together and at the track............what did it run?
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The Camaro has a Turbo 350, a ATI 8 inch converter, 7.5 rear end with 4.56 gears, highest ratio for a 7.5 differential. The weight I posted is as run down the track. Suspension is basically stock type, TQ arm setup. Tires are a 30 X 9 radial slick. Some pictures. What does 433 HP run @ 3165?
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bhodgdon400 said:
did we ever discuss the rest of the car? what about trans, converter, rear gear ratio, suspension upgrades? that engine combination doesn't look like a low 11 second combo in a Camaro. maybe in a super light weight something. i know you posted a curb weight. i don't see low 11's maybe mid 12's. what's the rest of the car combo? obviously all this debating is happening after the fact and you've already completed the build, had it on a dyno and had the car together and at the track............what did it run?
Click to expand...
The Camaro has a Turbo 350, a ATI 8 inch converter, 7.5 rear end with 4.56 gears, highest ratio for a 7.5 differential. The weight I posted is as run down the track. Suspension is basically stock type, TQ arm setup. Tires are a 30 X 9 radial slick. Some pictures. What does 433 HP run @ 3165?

1320/105 MPH=12.57=282 crankshaft HP @ 3165?
1320/115 MPH=11.47=371 crankshaft HP @ 3165?
 
#34 ·
vortecpro said:
1320/105 MPH=12.57=282 crankshaft HP @ 3165?
1320/115 MPH=11.47=371 crankshaft HP @ 3165?
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Based on ET I come up with slightly different numbers.

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Discussion starter · #36 ·
SoCal805 said:
4:56 with a 30" tire with a 7.5 rear....that rear is like glass with anything making more than 300 RWHP so I suspect its track life will be short lived.

Post up a time slip
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Yes-that was an experiment, so far it's been fine, but the ring and pinion is the weak link. This combination seems easy on everything. I have run the car with much more HP than the mild 350, no problems but I always foot brake the car.
 
#39 ·
vortecpro said:
I would NEVER run any type of power adder. You're right about the 6500 RPM actually its closer to 6700 in the lights. The heads are ported, but you can only do so much with them. 1.6 rockers were tested on the dyno, much to my surprise there was no HP gain. A 750 was also tested on the dyno and the track, a 850 down leg made more HP and was faster at the track. 1 5/8 headers were used. Dyno sheets posted. Maybe you can explain your thought process behind 500 HP to run low 11s @ 3165 pounds? View attachment 324922 View attachment 324923
Click to expand...
Thought process was:

-As we didn't have the gearing or torque converter information at the time, went based on the typical person's street or strip meaning. Without the overdrive many would typically run 3.42-3.73s, and 2500-4000 stall. Not 4.56s and whatever the 8" is setup to stall at. I remember driving back in the days with 4.56s and a loose converter. Even when highways were all double-nickels it got old fast (for me at least). So was expecting a milder gear/converter combo for streetability.
-Low 11s I translated as 11.2s range consistently. Although mid-11s isn't far off, every tenth requires exponentially more power, especially to hit it consistently.
-1st generation Camaro chassis setup (since this is the 67-69 forum).
-"Close to 500hp" meaning high-400s. Maybe that would have been a better choice of words.

From the power curves peaking in the early 5k and carrying past 6300rpm there's definitely something holding that combo back. Especially when the higher ratio arms didn't show any improvement. I'd see what a larger set of headers would do first. Also, hopefully you've fattened up the fuel curve a little. Not only would it be safer than the high 13s but should pick up a some power across the board.

Basically your engine ended up about where I expected (around 425ish hp).
 
#40 ·
Larry Madsen said:
I'll add: Engine building is pretty much one compromise after another trying to end up with the best "total package" for your intended purpose.

The harder you push to the 11 second build the further you will move away from a well-mannered "street engine".

Depending on just how much street use you have in mind ... there will likely be a considerable compromise someplace.

Edited to add: Hopefully you don't end up with neither of the goals met. ;)
Click to expand...
looks like very nice Machine work decked bored nice honing pattern i feel as though i was back in my shop doing all this every day and enjoying every minute of it. My compliments to the Machinist . You will have a nice engine when done good luck Alex
 
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