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Need help making a transmission decision

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logictests

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I just got a '69 that has a stock 4 speed muncie and an SS 396 big block. The clutch is on its way out, and it pops out of fourth gear whenever I let off the throttle for long enough if I don't hold it into gear. I'm also finding it really annoying to drive on the freeway. It's geared for acceleration, so it sounds like it's screaming in pain just going 60mph.

I now have to decide if I want to do a clutch replacement and rebuild the transmission... or swap it for a 6 speed. I'm also considering changing out the rear diff or ring and pinion.

Anyone have advice/suggestions? I'm worried if i replace the transmission without doing the LS swap I eventually plan on, I'll have issues with the length of the drive shaft that I'll have to fix twice and it won't be worth it.

Rebuilding the trans and replacing the clutch is going to be about $1,800. It's looking like $3-4k for parts if I do the swap, but that doesn't include hidden costs like the drive shaft, rear end, etc.

I'm also a novice, so if I said anything stupid, oops.

HALP
 
#2 ·
Popping out of gear is likely worn synchronizer teeth on gears and synchro sleeves. Expensive to cure. Start saving for that six speed.
 
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#3 ·
logictests said:
I just got a '69 that has a stock 4 speed muncie and an SS 396 big block. The clutch is on its way out, and it pops out of fourth gear whenever I let off the throttle for long enough if I don't hold it into gear. I'm also finding it really annoying to drive on the freeway. It's geared for acceleration, so it sounds like it's screaming in pain just going 60mph.

I now have to decide if I want to do a clutch replacement and rebuild the transmission... or swap it for a 6 speed. I'm also considering changing out the rear diff or ring and pinion.

Anyone have advice/suggestions? I'm worried if i replace the transmission without doing the LS swap I eventually plan on, I'll have issues with the length of the drive shaft that I'll have to fix twice and it won't be worth it.

Rebuilding the trans and replacing the clutch is going to be about $1,800. It's looking like $3-4k for parts if I do the swap, but that doesn't include hidden costs like the drive shaft, rear end, etc.

I'm also a novice, so if I said anything stupid, oops.

HALP
Click to expand...
You seem to be worrying about the mule instead of loading the wagon. The driveshaft is the least of any concerns. If you want to drive it sooner than later, replace the clutch, transmission, and have the rear gears changed to a 3.55 or somewhere close for decent highway driving and lower rpm. You might as well add the positraction unit during the replacement.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
fairfax1000 said:
You seem to be worrying about the mule instead of loading the wagon. The driveshaft is the least of any concerns. If you want to drive it sooner than later, replace the clutch, transmission, and have the rear gears changed to a 3.55 or somewhere close for decent highway driving and lower rpm. You might as well add the positraction unit during the replacement.
Click to expand...
Well, I'm wanting to spend the money correctly. I don't want to buy a trans, change out the driveshaft, only to change out the driveshaft again when I do the LS swap because the length is different. I guess I'm wanting advice on how much of it I should do now, vs. wait until i have the ~$30k for a crate LS.
 
#6 ·
You can always sell the drive shaft if you want to squeeze the financials, probably 50% loss not a total loss on the price assuming prices for new don't change. Same goes for the 4 speed, that shouldn't be hard to sell either, you could sell it all as a package to someone hating their automatic.
 
#7 ·
logictests said:
Well, I'm wanting to spend the money correctly. I don't want to buy a trans, change out the driveshaft, only to change out the driveshaft again when I do the LS swap because the length is different. I guess I'm wanting advice on how much of it I should do now, vs. wait until i have the ~$30k for a crate LS.
Click to expand...
I would do a TKX 5 Speed instead of a 6 speed. the TKX will cost less and is easier to install as the 6 speed will require tunnel modifications to achieve the correct DL angle. Plus you don't really need 2 OD gears. Most likely the rear end gearing you have will be OK. Check with Jody or Silversport for complete conversion kits.

I've done both 5 and 6 speeds and the TKX in my opinion is the best way to go.

FYI you can do an LS swap for way less than $30k.
 
#8 ·
You can keep the trans in the stock location with the swap. I think I used the set-back mounts which put mine about 3/4" off the firewall.
I did modify my heater box that I don't use anyway to make sure I had room...MEASURE, MEASURE, MEASURE.
 
#9 ·
Go TKX or you’ll be modifying your tunnel to fit a six speed. The six speed juice isn’t worth the squeeze in this case….
 
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#10 ·
IMO if you can't swing the LS swap at this time, you need a clutch and a TKX kit now.

Might not need any differential changes so you just enjoy what you have for now. LS later, if desired. Driveshafts can be reworked later for cheap.

Shoot for overall 10:1 ratio in first gear TKX and select the least amount of overdrive they offer. It's a great transmission.
 
#11 ·
I agree on the TKX over T56, easier fit and less cost as well.

Curious why you would go from BB to LS. Lots of BB crate options as well and it’s a simple drop in. EFI can be added too if that’a what you want.
 
#12 ·
It sounds like you need the TKX now. But it also sounds like you don't really know your starting point with this car or the end point. Without having some sort of handle on this it's going to be tough to get the car to where you want it without doing something twice. Find out what rears in the car. Try to determine where you want to end up with the car. What will it be?
Will you do any of the work? Heck, taken the time to track it all down, there's are LS swap and TKO/X tutorials built into this website.
If you are going to use shops you will need to find out who will do it right the first time. If you don't already have a handle on it there are probably guys near you who do.
 
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#13 ·
First thing you need to do is figure out what rear gear you have right now. THEN you can do some math to figure out what RPM you will be running at a given speed. Once you know what gear you have, you can decide on the proper OD gear.
OD is the only way to go if you want BOTH acceleration AND a decent RPM on the highway.

If you are popping out of gear, a standard rebuild isn't going to fix that.
It will likely be a very expensive rebuild.
Do the five speed. It isn't that difficult. I put a 4L60E in my 68 El Camino, and the driveshaft was the least of my worries. Local shop shortened it and put in a new front u-joint for under $100.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
3d cad said:
It sounds like you need the TKX now. But it also sounds like you don't really know your starting point with this car or the end point. Without having some sort of handle on this it's going to be tough to get the car to where you want it without doing something twice. Find out what rears in the car. Try to determine where you want to end up with the car. What will it be?
Will you do any of the work? Heck, taken the time to track it all down, there's are LS swap and TKO/X tutorials built into this website.
If you are going to use shops you will need to find out who will do it right the first time. If you don't already have a handle on it there are probably guys near you who do.
Click to expand...
My dad has been working on classic cars for decades, he has a shop and he'll do it right. I'm just working out what my plan will be. Do I fix what I have and keep it as is while i save up to do the trans and LS at the same time? Or do I swap the 4 speed for a 6 speed now? I'm worried the latter will leave me with having to replace the trans a second time because of mounting points or something I'm not aware of. I'm a noob, so I'm looking to learn.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
copo9560 said:
I agree on the TKX over T56, easier fit and less cost as well.

Curious why you would go from BB to LS. Lots of BB crate options as well and it’s a simple drop in. EFI can be added too if that’a what you want.
Click to expand...
I didn't really want the big block to begin with. I was looking for something that I could drop an LS in from the beginning. I just happened on this one because it was fully loaded with the R/S & SS packages, deluxe interior and exterior packages, and had been restored. I'm skilled enough (yet) to do all the tinkering myself and I've already had to adjust the choke and throttle a dozen times in the two days I've had it. The throttle linkage (not sure that's the right term) was way out of whack and way too long, i had to cut about an inch off of it just to allow the throttle to open up all the way. I want an engine that, while it may be difficult to get set up, isn't going to require all the manual tweaking and adjustments. I know I'm going to be flamed here because of my ignorance, but it's all part of learning, right?
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
stingr69 said:
IMO if you can't swing the LS swap at this time, you need a clutch and a TKX kit now.

Might not need any differential changes so you just enjoy what you have for now. LS later, if desired. Driveshafts can be reworked later for cheap.

Shoot for overall 10:1 ratio in first gear TKX and select the least amount of overdrive they offer. It's a great transmission.
Click to expand...
If I do the TKX swap now, will I be setting myself up for another trans swap or more work when I end up going with an LS later?
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
DOUG G said:
You can keep the trans in the stock location with the swap. I think I used the set-back mounts which put mine about 3/4" off the firewall.
I did modify my heater box that I don't use anyway to make sure I had room...MEASURE, MEASURE, MEASURE.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I might have some more questions. I'm going to be reading up on this.
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
Vega$69 said:
I would do a TKX 5 Speed instead of a 6 speed. the TKX will cost less and is easier to install as the 6 speed will require tunnel modifications to achieve the correct DL angle. Plus you don't really need 2 OD gears. Most likely the rear end gearing you have will be OK. Check with Jody or Silversport for complete conversion kits.

I've done both 5 and 6 speeds and the TKX in my opinion is the best way to go.

FYI you can do an LS swap for way less than $30k.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the info! I'll look into this, You may be right about a 5 speed being good enough for the current engine. I was planning on the LS9, which runs new at around $25k as a crate.
 
#20 ·
logictests said:
Thank you for the info! I'll look into this, You may be right about a 5 speed being good enough for the current engine. I was planning on the LS9, which runs new at around $25k as a crate.
Click to expand...
The LS9 is not a low $$ option. As an alternative take a look at the LT4 Connect and Cruise option - for around the same $$ you also get a tranny, ECU and a few more hp.

Is the 396 and Muncie original to the car? If so don’t sell, keep it safe, you might find it useful in the future.
 
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FbodyMike
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