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Discussion starter · #21 · (Edited)
Years ago my 454 started to use a quart of oil every 500 miles. My problem was teflon valves stem seals and leaking intake gaskets. A few years later it started to use a little oil again, so I retorqued the intake bolts and oil usage stopped.
You have hit on the plan I was contemplating on this problem.

First time intake was brought to my attention. Dan on Fantomworks had an oil issue that was traced to the bottom of the intake not sealing allowing oil to suck up into the runners.

After my rebuild and the milling things, my intake sits noticeably lower in the valley than it did prior to the build. It’s all the same parts … block, heads and intake.

I was thinking of swapping in a 1/8” thick gasket as a first step.

With the intake off I might discover indication of valve seal leak.

Then as a next step replace valve seals. The heads were completely rebuilt with new guides etc at rebuild.

Last resort … pull engine and go at it on the engine stand. 🙁
 
When I pulled my intake, several of the intake ports were oil soaked. I knew the valve stem seals were bad because it would blow blue smoke at start up. I was also installing new headers at the same time and a few exhaust ports had a puddle of oil laying in them. Hasn't used any oil since I retorque the intake many years ago. Hope you get this resolved without a rebuild.
 
Larry, I saw that Fatomworks episode. IIRC it was a Vette motor and yeah the intake did not mate flush to heads and block. Rebuilt motors with decked block and heads, this can happen.

When you pull intake and clean everything, dry fit intake like Dan did on the show to see for gaps. A thicker intake gasket at a minimum

If valve stem seals are Teflon, they wear fast. Viton seals should be used.
 
good info in here, posting so I can follow.

My question was already covered, resurfaced components and bottom of intake seal sounds very possible. I think the idea of having someone follow you to watch exhaust during deceleration (is this even a word?) is a great idea.
 
Discussion starter · #26 · (Edited)
I’ve built several engines for my cars. Never had any problem with leaks or oil consumption.

This is the first non-Ford engine. Built a couple of 351C engines and three or four 460 engines. All turned out great and to my knowledge are all still running fine today.

This SBC is quite disheartening.

The engine has less than 6,000 miles on it, so most of it should be fine. It runs great with fresh spark plugs.

If it does come down to poorly seated rings, I’d like to think I might get away with honing the cylinders to get some cross-hatch, new rings and put it back together.

I truly do not trust the shop that did my machine work.

On the heads I was promised a certain upgrade spring kit to be installed. In the end that is not what they used. When I questioned it they were satisfied to tell me, “we set it up to meet your cam specs”. When I asked about the spring pressures I was told, “hey … we’re not building a rocket ship here”. They did not record things or know.

Should have new guides and viton seals.

I had used this shop on the original build (20 years ago) and was unsure about the shop then. This build has my trust in them at about zero now.

The machine shop I had used and trusted implicitly on all the Ford builds is now gone. Dan Fultz was a guy I knew I could trust. Dan retired and the shop closed.

Ok, enough ranting. 🙄
 
Yeah, I wouldn't be happy with that shop either based on what you've said. With that low of miles I'm pretty confident you could get by with a hone/clean/ring job on doing it yourself. You shouldn't have much if any ridge that the top of the cylinders with just 6000 miles.
 
Rabbit hole could get deeper beyond fixing intake leak if there is one but sounds likely its intake. The vague answers from shop on build, no build sheet showing bearing clearances, ring gap, or valve springs used is a big red flag.

Symptom is hemorrhaging oil....the "why" may go deeper than just intake gaskets

If proper ring set was not done, the motor will use oil. At 6k mi a re-hone and new rings would fix that if that happened.
 
Back in the 70s ( maybe even in years after) It wasn’t uncommon to knurl valve guides.
Certainly not what I would choose, but some people would not notice or even think to ask when they dropped off the heads at the shop.
They wouldn’t last very long and chances are they would never hear from the unsuspecting customer again…..
Hopefully this wasn’t the case with your heads.
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
SoCal805, I did all the assembly. I assemble all my engines (except for heads) I personally cut the ring gaps. There is a lot I do know.

I have all the machine shop paperwork.

The heads bother me though. No specific answers to specific questions. They are Dart Pro1 heads. I don’t know if they have any unusual characteristics or if everything is common standard stuff.
 
My bad Larry, thought machine shop assembled motor. You did assembly so you know that part is good

The Dart Pro 1 heads are good. If machine shop refreshed them with new guides, lap valves, new valve stem seals (ideally Viton) and used a quality valve spring suitable for your cam than they should be good. Teflon seals are typically white so if you have those, replace with Viton. I like the FelPro ones

Intake leak seems the likely suspect.
 
Throwing out some possible areas to look into and questions. I would take out & check all the plugs in their order and see if its all or just a few. #1 looks bad, #2 looks rich, whats the rest like? Take off the valve covers and check around the spring seat areas for visible seals are seated properly. I would take off the carb and see what the intake plenum looks like.
Any oil accumulation in there.
Are you using a roller or flat tappet cam?
Worst case scenario, water jacket cracked?
Improper bore, piston wall clearance?
 
I’ve built several engines for my cars. Never had any problem with leaks or oil consumption.

This is the first non-Ford engine. Built a couple of 351C engines and three or four 460 engines. All turned out great and to my knowledge are all still running fine today.

This SBC is quite disheartening.

The engine has less than 6,000 miles on it, so most of it should be fine. It runs great with fresh spark plugs.

If it does come down to poorly seated rings, I’d like to think I might get away with honing the cylinders to get some cross-hatch, new rings and put it back together.

I truly do not trust the shop that did my machine work.

On the heads I was promised a certain upgrade spring kit to be installed. In the end that is not what they used. When I questioned it they were satisfied to tell me, “we set it up to meet your cam specs”. When I asked about the spring pressures I was told, “hey … we’re not building a rocket ship here”. They did not record things or know.

Should have new guides and viton seals.

I had used this shop on the original build (20 years ago) and was unsure about the shop then. This build has my trust in them at about zero now.

The machine shop I had used and trusted implicitly on all the Ford builds is now gone. Dan Fultz was a guy I knew I could trust. Dan retired and the shop closed.

Ok, enough ranting. 🙄
You can now question everything they did.
 
Discussion starter · #34 · (Edited)
Throwing out some possible areas to look into and questions. I would take out & check all the plugs in their order and see if its all or just a few. #1 looks bad, #2 looks rich, whats the rest like? Take off the valve covers and check around the spring seat areas for visible seals are seated properly. I would take off the carb and see what the intake plenum looks like.
Any oil accumulation in there.
Are you using a roller or flat tappet cam?
Worst case scenario, water jacket cracked?
Improper bore, piston wall clearance?
As mentioned previously the remainder of the plugs are bad, but those 2 are the worst.

I can surely pull the valve covers and check the seals. However I have little experience with heads and valve seals.

I’ll be pulling the carb and intake when I change to thicker gasket.

Running a fairly mild crane hydraulic roller cam.

Not losing coolant, so I think a cracked jacket is not likely.

Bores cleaned up at .040” over. I’ll check but I don’t imagine the shop provided a more exacting spec. Hopefully they did not go substantially over the 4.040” spec and just call it good enough. “Hey, we’re not building a rocket ship here.”

Pistons are KB Hyperutectic # 474-135-040. Only spec there is minimum clearance of 0.0015”
 
As mentioned previously the remainder of the plugs are bad, but those 2 are the worst.

I can surely pull the valve covers and check the seals. However I have little experience with heads and valve seals.

I’ll be pulling the carb and intake when I change to thicker gasket.

Running a fairly mild crane hydraulic roller cam.

Not losing coolant, so I think a cracked jacket is not likely.

Bores cleaned up at .040” over. I’ll check but I don’t imagine the shop provided a more exacting spec. Hopefully they did not go substantially over the 4.040” spec and just call it good enough. “Hey, we’re not building a rocket ship here.”

Pistons are KB Hyperutectic # 474-135-040. Only spec there is minimum clearance of 0.0015”
Apparently they don’t appreciate your concern from their lack of rocket ship knowledge. That’s an incredible amount of oil fouling. I’d put it on TDC #1 and do a leakdown, since that’s a serious oil leak. I’m betting on a ring issue.
 
The Dart heads likely use a jacketed valve stem seal, and it is hard to tell just by looking at them installed if they are bad. If oil is in intake and exhaust ports of heads, then seals are leaking. Given the heads only have 6k mi since refresh when new guides were put in, then guides should be fine. "If" push rods are wrong length than rocker will side load the valve stem and that will wear valve guides quickly.

From this side of keyboard, we can only speculate on what is being described but if valve stem seals are bad or are Teflon ones, changing them with motor in car can be done. You can use either compressed air or the rope method to hold valve up when removing springs to replace seals. Tedious job but doable. You will need a valve spring compressor to replace seals and a air hose to spark plug thread hose to fill cylinder with air. I just use the rope method through spark plug hole.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
From this side of keyboard, we can only speculate on what is being described but if valve stem seals are bad or are Teflon ones, changing them with motor in car can be done. You can use either compressed air or the rope method to hold valve up when removing springs to replace seals. Tedious job but doable. You will need a valve spring compressor to replace seals and a air hose to spark plug thread hose to fill cylinder with air. I just use the rope method through spark plug hole.
I don't mind purchasing a good valve spring compressor, I've thought for quite a while that I should have one.

I figure I could consider (as a first step) replace the four on cylinders #1 and #2. That might teach me how to do it and keep it from being on an overwhelming task on my first stab at it. See if that corrects the problem in the two "worse cases".
 
I have this valve spring tool. Bought it about 20 years ago. Crane is no more but other makers have them now. Mine was for 3/8 studs but I drilled it out to 7/16 size which will also still work for 3/8 rocker studs

You can do both intake and exhaust springs on a cyl at same time. Super easy to use.

Of course you will have to lash valves after you replace spring/

Tip: use a pen magnet to capture the keepers and plug all drain back holes in heads with paper towels. You don't want to drop a keeper, aka lock, down in motor
 

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If you connect a compression tester hose to a compressed air line you can change stem seals without pulling heads…. Provided your valves and rings seal well…
I changed umbrella seals and springs on a 350 using a nylon rope and a homemade tool.
Just a passing thought from Mr Goodpliers
 
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